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D-Fence!

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D-Fence!

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:54 pm

Shortstop

Some things just never change: Adam Everett is at the top, Derek Jeter at the bottom, just like it has been for the past many years. As much as something in the baseball world can be a travesty, the fact that Jeter has multiple Gold Gloves and Everett has none is an absolute outrage.

Hanley Ramirez’s poor rating is a bit surprising (not that he’s ever had good defensive numbers; just his fielding ratings haven’t been all that bad, either), but it certainly provides a boost to Jose Reyes in their battle to be the top shortstop in the National League. The man is so athletic though that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him turn around his fielding at some point, just like Reyes did last year.

And since Royals fans have so little to be happy about these days, let us all rejoice in how many light years better than Angel Berroa Mr. Pena has been in the field. Perhaps the Kansas City telecasts should focus only on the shortstop.

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Re: D-Fence!

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, I value defense as basically nothing in terms of how good a player is period. The difference between the best and worst defensive players is so much less than the difference between the best and worst hitters that it's ridiculous. GMs, go get hitting, not defense.
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Re: D-Fence!

Postby samjerky » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:25 pm

yes offense is more important etc. but why is the gold glove such a popularity contest? What's the point?
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Re: D-Fence!

Postby mkultra » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:53 pm

Jeter, IMO, wins because he's flashy. There are clearly better gloves out there, but he's got a way of making routine plays look like he's pulled some superhuman feat. I'm not justifying it, but you have to recognize it.
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Re: D-Fence!

Postby Pokey » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:58 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:Well, I value defense as basically nothing in terms of how good a player is period. The difference between the best and worst defensive players is so much less than the difference between the best and worst hitters that it's ridiculous. GMs, go get hitting, not defense.


This just isn't true. Defence has been the primary focus of most of the Sabr community for a year or two now, and most agree that it is much more important than origionally thought. There are players out there who cost their teams 20 or more runs a season through poor defense. That's nothing to scoff.
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Re: D-Fence!

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:18 pm

A different look...
Then there’s the “zone rating,” a statistical category with so many holes that its creator, John Dewan, has since come up with two amendments to it: the revised zone rating and the plus/minus system. All are considered misleading because they fail to credit fielders who catch balls out of their “zones”—which Jones does regularly.

Stark goes on to say that Jones’ defense has suffered because he’s trying too hard to become an offensive force. Despite the fact that Jones hit 51 homers in 2005, Stark criticizes him for having the lowest batting average, slugging percentage and OPS (on-base plus slugging average) of any other player to hit more than 50 home runs in a season. He then points to Bill James’ obscure “runs created” statistic, which bears out that two players with only 20 home runs, Brian Roberts and Derek Jeter, “created” more runs than Jones, even though Roberts and Jeter are leadoff hitters, meaning they have more opportunities to create runs.

And that’s Stark’s entire argument. His manipulation of statistics and explanation of a slight decline in performance are the sole basis for his claim that Jones is the most overrated center fielder of all time. Anyone can manipulate statistics any way they choose. And show me an athlete whose performance didn’t decline with time.

[url= Then there’s the “zone rating,” a statistical category with so many holes that its creator, John Dewan, has since come up with two amendments to it: the revised zone rating and the plus/minus system. All are considered misleading because they fail to credit fielders who catch balls out of their “zones”—which Jones does regularly.

Stark goes on to say that Jones’ defense has suffered because he’s trying too hard to become an offensive force. Despite the fact that Jones hit 51 homers in 2005, Stark criticizes him for having the lowest batting average, slugging percentage and OPS (on-base plus slugging average) of any other player to hit more than 50 home runs in a season. He then points to Bill James’ obscure “runs created” statistic, which bears out that two players with only 20 home runs, Brian Roberts and Derek Jeter, “created” more runs than Jones, even though Roberts and Jeter are leadoff hitters, meaning they have more opportunities to create runs.

And that’s Stark’s entire argument. His manipulation of statistics and explanation of a slight decline in performance are the sole basis for his claim that Jones is the most overrated center fielder of all time. Anyone can manipulate statistics any way they choose. And show me an athlete whose performance didn’t decline with time.]FULL ARTICLE[/url]
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