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Postby Bukoski77 » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:37 pm

BigLebowski wrote:
tlef316 wrote:
everyone remembers chacon last year for tthe great starts he had in coors. i remember him for the inconsistency and the injury that ended his year. im not saying that chacon wont be a decent option, but to guarentee he will out preform the oakland closer is not very smart.


I'm too lazy to do the research myself, but I'm almost positive that Chacon has a better ERA at home than he did on the road.

I take Chacon over Rhodes. Beane may have a good record with closers but Rhodes is a mistake IMO.


Not to mention we lost our pitching coach, who worked with the closers, to those damnable Mets. I think Rhodes will push 30 saves but Dotel takes this one hands down as the best new closer.
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Postby KULCAT » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:53 am

LBJackal wrote:Rhodes could do better than Chacon (which is VERY doubtful), but Rhodes will also go waaaaaaay before he should. Chacon has shown he can pitch well in Coors, and only pitching 80 or so innings per season, I don't see him getting injured.

I totally agree. He´s pitched great in Colorado wich i think is possible to do but not for a whole season. remember hamptons first season. He was awsome in like the first 3 games and then... :-P
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Postby Mookie4ever » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:20 pm

Rhodes had an ankle injury last year. Before last year his numbers compared favourably with Dotel. Rhodes has no competition for the closer job - same can't be said for Dotel who will have to win the job.

I would take Dotel over Rhodes only because Rhodes is a lot more flakey and could implode - but they are not that far apart on my draft board.

In the drafts that I have seen Dotel is going very early and Rhodes very late - the VALUE is in Rhodes.
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Postby oklobbyist » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:34 pm

Dotel. I don't think the Rangers' pitching will send to many games to the bullpen for possible saves.
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Postby KPucks » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:52 pm

oklobbyist wrote:Dotel. I don't think the Rangers' pitching will send to many games to the bullpen for possible saves.


I am pretty sure that Urbina was at the top of the AL in saves before being traded and Cordero had a fair amount of saves last year. He will get plenty of chances because the pitching won't allow blowouts even if the team scores 10 runs b/c the starters will give up 8 or 9.
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Postby LBJackal » Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:27 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:I would take Dotel over Rhodes only because Rhodes is a lot more flakey and could implode - but they are not that far apart on my draft board.


8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o

Comparing Dotel and Rhodes??

Dotel is 30 B-)
Rhodes is 35 :-P

Dotel has been lights-out every season he's been a relief pitcher. :-)
Rhodes has had an ERA under 3 only twice in his 9 years of being a relief pitcher. :-o

Dotel had 10 K/9 last year 8-o
Rhodes had 8 K/9 last year :-[

Rhodes' ERA, WHIP, and BAA were all about twice as high as Dotel's last season. I'm surprised that a fellow Torontonian of all people would even consider comparing Dotel and Rhodes...

Do I have to say it again??? STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE ISN'T GETTING ANY YOUNGER!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby Ron Badger » Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:37 pm

I compare Rhodes to a guy like J.Mesa. Mesa is not a top ERA and WHIP guy, but when he was playing in Philly he got a ton of save ops. He still had several 40 plus save years, because of all the chances he got. Rhodes will get plenty of chances in Oakland to pick up saves, so even though he doesn't have Gagne's arm, he still will have the chance to get 35-plus saves.
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Postby DK » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:10 pm

Ron Badger wrote:I compare Rhodes to a guy like J.Mesa. Mesa is not a top ERA and WHIP guy, but when he was playing in Philly he got a ton of save ops. He still had several 40 plus save years, because of all the chances he got. Rhodes will get plenty of chances in Oakland to pick up saves, so even though he doesn't have Gagne's arm, he still will have the chance to get 35-plus saves.


I'd compare him more to Mike Williams with more skill. Williams got 46 saves on a 72-win team. That's insane. He wasn't even that good, but he got all those opportunities. He got the opportunities because the Pirates kept games close.

The A's will do the same for Rhodes, because the great pitching will stand side by side the poor hitting and make many of their wins 3-1, 3-2, 2-1, 4-3, which are save situations all the time.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:44 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I would take Dotel over Rhodes only because Rhodes is a lot more flakey and could implode - but they are not that far apart on my draft board.


8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o

Comparing Dotel and Rhodes??

Dotel is 30 B-)
Rhodes is 35 :-P

Dotel has been lights-out every season he's been a relief pitcher. :-)
Rhodes has had an ERA under 3 only twice in his 9 years of being a relief pitcher. :-o

Dotel had 10 K/9 last year 8-o
Rhodes had 8 K/9 last year :-[

Rhodes' ERA, WHIP, and BAA were all about twice as high as Dotel's last season. I'm surprised that a fellow Torontonian of all people would even consider comparing Dotel and Rhodes...

Do I have to say it again??? STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE ISN'T GETTING ANY YOUNGER!!!!!!!!!!!


Age: Dotel is 30, Rhodes is 34 - the same age as Rivera and Percival and 3 years younger than Smoltz. He is not getting any younger, that's one thing that you got right.

Let's put aside last year - Rhodes had an ankle injury but he is supposed to be fully recovered.

For 2001 and 2002 Dotel had a WHIP of 1.044 (not bad), Rhodes had a WHIP of 0.840 (that my friend is lights out).

Rhodes has been hand picked by Beane, who has had some success in picking closers, and has been given a 3 year contract specifically to close.

Dotel has been given nothing. He goes into spring training as the front runner to win the job. He's not exactly up against Bill Caudil but has to beat out Brad Lidge (who is 27, age seems to be a big thing with you - that is 3 years younger than Dotel - now seems to be the appropriate time to point out that Dotel is not getting any younger either - Lidge, on the other hand, expects to be 26 next year :-D ) who had 97 Ks in 85 IP last year.

The Dotel bandwagon is in top gear and is picking up even more momentum. You don't get value with the hyped players. Value is found with the Arthur Rhodes and Mike Hamptons of this world.

I think that Dotel will win the closers job in Houston and I think that he will have a fine season. I have him ranked ahead of Rhodes on my board but not by 12 rounds (the spreads that I have seen). If you are looking for value and to win your league - get off the Dotel bandwagon and look to pick up cheap saves with Rhodes. But what do I know?
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:54 pm

value - the buzz word for fantasy sports. Learn it, live it, love it.

Mook is right. Rhodes has more "value" because of where the two are being ranked.
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