HOOTIE wrote:It seems silly to me to say Rose doesn't belong in HOF, but at the same time, allow his stuff in.
HOF: say Pete, you can't get in, sorry, but can we use your bat and jersey in the HOF?
Kind of like the neighborhood kid no one likes, but has the bat and ball. Hey kid, you can watch us, if we can borrow your stuff?
You can do better than "silly" Hoot.
People donate memorabilia for display in the hall, it is not taken from them - if they do not want to donate it then fine (and if you want to sell it, then the HOF can buy like anyone else). Rose wants his stuff on display because he has a huge ego.
The memorabilia belongs there because the HOF's mission is to preserve the history of the game.
Another mission of the hall is to "honor, by enshrinement, those individuals who had exceptional careers..."
Yes, he had an exceptional career but is he worthy of honor (spelled honour in Canada)? The answer is no. On a basic level because he is a lying jackass, but more specifically because his offense invovled gambling on the game. Gambling by somebody with the ability to influence the outcome of a game leads to thoughts of corruption. Nobody will watch a game that may be fixed unless it involves violence (boxing or wrestling). MLB and the HOF are being self-interested just like Rose and as someone who bets on the game himself, I thank them.
Mookie4ever wrote:The HOF and MLB have always taken a hard line on gambling (Shoeless Joe) and rightly so because it goes to the very root of the game and whether it is respectable or not. I'm not saying that any leniency will lead to the type of scorn and corruption reserved for boxing, but it may be the thin edge of the the wedge.
Finally, Rose's career is acknowledged - that is the whole point of the memorabilia - it is a compromise designed to acknowledge the career while not honouring an individual unworthy or honour.
Most of what you said there was good, but Shoeless Joe wasn't accused of gambling. He was accused of taking money to lose. Which he did NOT do. There is no evidence whatsoever that shows he was involved in the scandal. He was clearly the best player in the 1919 WS, didn't make any errors, and there's no proof he ever talked to any of the people who paid off some members of the Black Sox. Joe gets a bad rap, he was innocent.
In that world series, three triples were hit to left field when Shoeless was out there. Triples NEVER go to left field. Make your own distinction.
Three triples were hit to left center field, all of which were fielded by the center fielder Happy Felsch. Joe led his team in batting average, hits, runs, HR, and RBI during the WS.
Make your own distinction.
For starters, i think Joe jackson should be in there too. The common conception is that he took the money then screwed the guys that payed him. Ive also heard he tried to get his money back. But he still took the money...
I am against anything that will get Rose closer to the game. IMHO, he cares little about the Hall. What he really wants is for the opportunity to be able to manage again and make $$. That would be a huge mistake.
Mookie4ever wrote:The HOF and MLB have always taken a hard line on gambling (Shoeless Joe) and rightly so because it goes to the very root of the game and whether it is respectable or not. I'm not saying that any leniency will lead to the type of scorn and corruption reserved for boxing, but it may be the thin edge of the the wedge.
Finally, Rose's career is acknowledged - that is the whole point of the memorabilia - it is a compromise designed to acknowledge the career while not honouring an individual unworthy or honour.
Most of what you said there was good, but Shoeless Joe wasn't accused of gambling. He was accused of taking money to lose. Which he did NOT do. There is no evidence whatsoever that shows he was involved in the scandal. He was clearly the best player in the 1919 WS, didn't make any errors, and there's no proof he ever talked to any of the people who paid off some members of the Black Sox. Joe gets a bad rap, he was innocent.
In that world series, three triples were hit to left field when Shoeless was out there. Triples NEVER go to left field. Make your own distinction.
Three triples were hit to left center field, all of which were fielded by the center fielder Happy Felsch. Joe led his team in batting average, hits, runs, HR, and RBI during the WS.
Make your own distinction.
For this, there is one simple quote:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/yr1919ws.shtml wrote:Joe Jackson had batted a Series-leading .375 but acknowledged that he had let up in key situations.
So, basically, he knew what he was doing, and he did it.
He had ONE home run. ONE. He led his team in HR, this is true, but that's kind of like saying that he was the kid who got an 11 on his math test but beat out the rest of the class.
FIVE runs. Again, he led his team, but it's not as if it was an insurmountable lead. Second was Buck Weaver, another banned player, who had four runs.
SIX RBI. Chick Gandil, another conspirator who is said to be "the heavy, the man who wrote the script", had five RBI. Again, not exactly a huge difference.
TWELVE hits. Second again was Buck Weaver, with eleven.
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by The Zot » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:30 am 
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