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Trading Strategies

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Trading Strategies

Postby WebHamster » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:20 pm

This thread contains comments on Jacob Harvey's Article "Trading Strategies", which was posted in the Cafe's Articles section on June 1, 2007. The full article can be read here.
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Postby JustAnotherYanksFan » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:15 pm

I liked this article a lot - it discussed a lot of great points that are almost essential for getting trades done in many leagues. I also wanted to mention one more specific strategy that wasn't discussed in the article but was showcased in the trade he used as an example. This is something that I've only recently picked up on, but it's already helped me pull off one trade that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

It can sometimes be helpful to make the deal a lot bigger and more complex than it has to be in order to get a smaller deal done. The author of the article exemplified this perfectly when he traded Reyes, Izzy and Clippard for Crawford, Mo, and Dontrelle. Reyes and Crawford are basically the same kind of player (position aside), so it's unlikely that the author had any particular need that Crawford helped him in that Reyes wouldn't have. However, the other owner clearly valued Reyes a lot higher than Crawford, and that allowed the author to upgrade his pitching nicely.

So the general idea here is to include a swap of big-name players into a smaller deal. As another example of this, I traded Crawford and Kevin Gregg for Soriano and Harang a few days ago. The guy wasn't willing to do Harang for Gregg, but after talking to him, I found out that he was looking to move Soriano if he could get another first rounder in return. If Soriano doesn't pick things up, then I may come to regret this trade. But assuming that Crawford and Soriano end up being about equally valuable, then I filled my need for a starting pitcher without giving up more value than I wanted to.

Also, if you're in a league where the commissioner is a little trigger-happy with the veto, using this strategy can help prevent your trades from being vetoed because any perceived imbalance in the side-players in the deal (i.e., the real reason you're doing it in the first place) is outweighed by the big-name players being swapped. To go back to the author's original example, Izzy+Clippard for Rivera+Willis might have been vetoed by some trigger-happy commissioners, but with Reyes and Crawford thrown in there it's very unlikely to get vetoed (unless the commissioner is a real d-bag).

Just wanted to throw in my two cents based on recent experience. :-)
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Postby jake_harv88 » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:03 pm

I agree and disagree. I disagree that reyes and crawford are the same player. Reyes will finish with 15-20 more steals than crawford in my mind, but crawford will probably finish with more homeruns. Reyes' 19 last year were a fluke as far as i can tell, and crawford has improved his power numbers every year since being in the league. Being that I had other guys like wright, barfield, and willits I could spare the loss of steals while gaining a few hrs.

Now back to the important stuff, the article. Thats an excellent point you make. I actually wish i had included it, it would have made a very nice add. I had never really thought of it like that, but now that i do it makes total sense. Thanks for the insight ;-D
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Postby jamastaballa » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:38 am

Nice article...it was fun to read.
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Postby B-Chad » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:42 pm

Interesting article. I enjoyed the read. I found myself, someone who's not shy to trade, and loves to mix things up a bit, saying "yeah I've done that before." I'd like to add that talking in person or on the phone is tremendous, and I enjoy it, but I'm also a big fan of using instant messenger. As you've said, discussing a trade, is much better in terms of gauging value and the quantity of offers that can be thrown back and forth. One thing I would have liked to seen discussed in the article is your take on posting messages on the league message board in order to field offers? I personally am not a fan. Though it is possible to field a large number of offers posting something like "Interested in starting pitching, willing to deal a bat," I feel like it also can de-value your trade chips. Also, I'm even more against specifically shopping a player, for example, "Looking for offers for Delgado." I see it in leagues all the time, and I prey on it. If I know an owner is fed up with a superstar, or even a quality player worth being owned, I'm going try and get him at below market value. Finally, I noticed in the opening of the article you targeted players such as BJ Upton and J.J. Hardy specifically as sell high candidates. Though I agree with the idea of selling players high, I disagree with these two specific examples, depending on your definition of "selling high." I feel like the expression is very ambiguous. I think it would have been great to see you toss around a few examples of what returns would qualify those players as being "sold high." Anyways, enough of me picking apart every last detail, I enjoyed the article, keep up the good work man.
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Postby jake_harv88 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:28 am

The article was actually not about specific sell high guys. I just threw that out there as a good intro. The piece was meant to be about ways to go about trades and not about specific examples of guys to trade or target. Upton might have been a bad choice because hes always been a top prospect. Hardy is definately a great sell high candidate. Hardy is currently on pace for 47 hrs. Are you honestly suggesting he keeps up that pace? Hes never shown power potential in the majors or the minors. His max in the minors is 12 and he had 14 career hrs in the majors coming into the year. In yahoo leagues Hardy has been traded straight up for Oswalt and Bay. If anyone is going to be like chris shelton this year its going to be this guy. I highly doubt he breaks 30 hrs...


That being said I'm thinking about doing a follow up including some of the strategies you guys have come up with as well as a couple i've thought of in the past couple of days. Thoughts on that?
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Postby JustAnotherYanksFan » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:36 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:The article was actually not about specific sell high guys. I just threw that out there as a good intro. The piece was meant to be about ways to go about trades and not about specific examples of guys to trade or target. Upton might have been a bad choice because hes always been a top prospect. Hardy is definately a great sell high candidate. Hardy is currently on pace for 47 hrs. Are you honestly suggesting he keeps up that pace? Hes never shown power potential in the majors or the minors. His max in the minors is 12 and he had 14 career hrs in the majors coming into the year. In yahoo leagues Hardy has been traded straight up for Oswalt and Bay. If anyone is going to be like chris shelton this year its going to be this guy. I highly doubt he breaks 30 hrs...


That being said I'm thinking about doing a follow up including some of the strategies you guys have come up with as well as a couple i've thought of in the past couple of days. Thoughts on that?


I loved the first one, so a follow-up sounds great. ;-D
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