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You can steal Wi-Fi?

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Postby HiddenIdentity » Thu May 31, 2007 11:27 pm

If its not password protected its free. Who hasn't stolen WiFi before?
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Postby TheRock » Thu May 31, 2007 11:27 pm

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:While I agree that it's the owners responsibility to adequately secure their connection if they don't want people free loading, at the same time it's like saying I can go into your house or car and steal whatever I want if you happen to leave the door unlocked.


I don't know, I think this case is more like sitting across the street from the drive-in theater or being within earshot of a concert and getting to listen for free.

If I read it right, the coffee shop didn't press charges for theft, the guy was charged with hacking. For illegally accessing a free network. :-? I don't know, bad law I think. If he had gone to trial I can't see him getting convicted. But with the penalties he could have faced, I would have plead it out too.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu May 31, 2007 11:31 pm

JT, that's not a lawn gnome. That's me out there stealing your bandwidth... B-)
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Postby JTWood » Thu May 31, 2007 11:34 pm

Amazinz wrote:JT, that's not a lawn gnome. That's me out there stealing your bandwidth... B-)

In in ur garden, gnoming ur bandwidth.

Is that like, "I'm in your computer upgrading ur ramz?"
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Thu May 31, 2007 11:49 pm

TheRock wrote:
SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:While I agree that it's the owners responsibility to adequately secure their connection if they don't want people free loading, at the same time it's like saying I can go into your house or car and steal whatever I want if you happen to leave the door unlocked.


I don't know, I think this case is more like sitting across the street from the drive-in theater or being within earshot of a concert and getting to listen for free.

In this particular case with the coffee shop, you're right. I was referring to people piggy backing on their neighbors connection.
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Postby BitterDodgerFan » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:48 am

yea sometimes you don't even know you are sharing.

few years back, i was just changing some settings on my router and noticed my router settings keep changing. i find out that my computer was sometimes connecting to my neighbor's router. i realized we had the same D-Link router, the same network name "default" and the same router ip. both of used no password/encryption. i later find that my neighbor was also getting connected to my router too. so a lot of the time, i was using his network while he was using mine, lol. since this was unintentional, it was no big deal. i later set WEP password and changed my network SSID so that i can distinguish the wi-fi's.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:02 am

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Coppermine wrote:People need to be responsible for their own Internet connections. If you want to use a wireless router, learn how to setup security for it. If you don't know how to do that, just plug your computer in.

I see not setting security on your router as being akin to providing a free, public service. This is why coffee shops and the hotels don't have passwords for their wireless connections.

While I agree that it's the owners responsibility to adequately secure their connection if they don't want people free loading, at the same time it's like saying I can go into your house or car and steal whatever I want if you happen to leave the door unlocked.


No it's not; it's the Internet, not my car. If you "steal" my internet, I still have the Internet. It's an intangible item.

Look, I know that it is taking something for free that someone else is paying for; which is essentially stealing. But it's not even as bad as stealing cable. Ultimately, the responsibility should lie with the individual who has the wireless internet. If they're not responsible for that, then why should anyone learn how to be safe on the Internet? "I don't need security on my router, the police will take care of it!"

Give me a break; if you're dumb enough to get caught stealing your neighbor's connection, fine... slap them with a fine. 50 bucks. It's like parking in a handicapped space. But people need to be aware that their connection if vulnerable and responsible for protecting it because seriously; it's pretty easy to do and takes about 2 minutes.
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:44 am

Coppermine wrote:
SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Coppermine wrote:People need to be responsible for their own Internet connections. If you want to use a wireless router, learn how to setup security for it. If you don't know how to do that, just plug your computer in.

I see not setting security on your router as being akin to providing a free, public service. This is why coffee shops and the hotels don't have passwords for their wireless connections.

While I agree that it's the owners responsibility to adequately secure their connection if they don't want people free loading, at the same time it's like saying I can go into your house or car and steal whatever I want if you happen to leave the door unlocked.


No it's not; it's the Internet, not my car. If you "steal" my internet, I still have the Internet. It's an intangible item.

Bandwidth is a very tangible commodity. If you're freeloading off my connection and taking half of my bandwidth that means it's going to take twice as long to do whatever it is I'm doing therefore I'm not getting what I paid for with the check I cut to my ISP every month. And that's not even considering the extra time I would have to invest , time I wouldn't have to be investing if you weren't stealing something I paid for.

Coppermine wrote:Look, I know that it is taking something for free that someone else is paying for; which is essentially stealing. But it's not even as bad as stealing cable. Ultimately, the responsibility should lie with the individual who has the wireless internet. If they're not responsible for that, then why should anyone learn how to be safe on the Internet? "I don't need security on my router, the police will take care of it!"

I'm not saying it's not their responsibility to secure their own connection, but just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should be allowed to take what someone else pays for. If I can get away with stealing something of yous you consider "tangible" should I just be allowed to do it? Unless I'm misunderstanding you that's exactly what you're saying.

Coppermine wrote:Give me a break; if you're dumb enough to get caught stealing your neighbor's connection, fine... slap them with a fine. 50 bucks. It's like parking in a handicapped space. But people need to be aware that their connection if vulnerable and responsible for protecting it because seriously; it's pretty easy to do and takes about 2 minutes.

Again, I agree that it's the owners responsibility to secure it, and it is in fact relatively easy to do, but if I happen leave my windows open and someone comes in and takes something off my desk, are they still not stealing? Using your logic that would be perfectly acceptable since I would have provided them with a way in.
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Postby knapplc » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:01 am

I am constantly amazed that people do not consider it to be wrong to use bandwidth for which you do not pay.

If it's something someone owns, that they pay for, that you use, that you do NOT pay for, that you would ordinarily have to pay to use, and you use it without paying for it, that's stealing.
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Postby Coppermine » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:37 am

SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Coppermine wrote:
SaintsOfTheDiamond wrote:
Coppermine wrote:People need to be responsible for their own Internet connections. If you want to use a wireless router, learn how to setup security for it. If you don't know how to do that, just plug your computer in.

I see not setting security on your router as being akin to providing a free, public service. This is why coffee shops and the hotels don't have passwords for their wireless connections.

While I agree that it's the owners responsibility to adequately secure their connection if they don't want people free loading, at the same time it's like saying I can go into your house or car and steal whatever I want if you happen to leave the door unlocked.


No it's not; it's the Internet, not my car. If you "steal" my internet, I still have the Internet. It's an intangible item.

Bandwidth is a very tangible commodity. If you're freeloading off my connection and taking half of my bandwidth that means it's going to take twice as long to do whatever it is I'm doing therefore I'm not getting what I paid for with the check I cut to my ISP every month. And that's not even considering the extra time I would have to invest , time I wouldn't have to be investing if you weren't stealing something I paid for.

Coppermine wrote:Look, I know that it is taking something for free that someone else is paying for; which is essentially stealing. But it's not even as bad as stealing cable. Ultimately, the responsibility should lie with the individual who has the wireless internet. If they're not responsible for that, then why should anyone learn how to be safe on the Internet? "I don't need security on my router, the police will take care of it!"

I'm not saying it's not their responsibility to secure their own connection, but just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should be allowed to take what someone else pays for. If I can get away with stealing something of yous you consider "tangible" should I just be allowed to do it? Unless I'm misunderstanding you that's exactly what you're saying.

Coppermine wrote:Give me a break; if you're dumb enough to get caught stealing your neighbor's connection, fine... slap them with a fine. 50 bucks. It's like parking in a handicapped space. But people need to be aware that their connection if vulnerable and responsible for protecting it because seriously; it's pretty easy to do and takes about 2 minutes.

Again, I agree that it's the owners responsibility to secure it, and it is in fact relatively easy to do, but if I happen leave my windows open and someone comes in and takes something off my desk, are they still not stealing? Using your logic that would be perfectly acceptable since I would have provided them with a way in.


1. I think you would be surprised how many people it takes to be on a single Wi-Fi hotspot for there to be a noticeable reduction is speed and/or quality. If it takes you twice as long to download something because of people piggybacking, then there are several people stealing your bandwidth, they're all downloading the entire first season of Entourage, and it would be impossible to prosecute all of them. If that's not a good enough reason to secure your router, I don't know what is.

2. I don't think you should get away with it either. You're missing my point, which is not that it's ok for people to steal bandwidth. My point is that who is supposed to go around enforcing this? No, it's up to you , as an individual in my opinion to protect your router. If you're so concerned with your investment, then get a WEP key. 2 minutes. The tangibility comment was just to make it clear that stealing Internet is not the same as stealing my car because I left the door unlocked.

3. How are we still making some connection between someone crawling through my window and taking my stuff?
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