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Finally, Cindy Sheehan is done.

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Postby Madison » Wed May 30, 2007 7:49 am

The Big Train wrote:Absurd, yes, but somehow I get the feeling that she was not really suggesting that the country “change to her exact political beliefs” as you put it,


It's not "how I put it", it's exactly word for word what she said. That's what I was commenting on. If she's talking about popular belief, then she should have said that, but that's not what she said.

As to the rest of your post, no offense meant, but I could care less about debating this policing action any further, so I'm skipping that part. You think we should be out, I think we should go full scale and end this quick. We're both entitled to our opinions on the matter and your post leaves a whole lot of things wide open to debate/discuss, but I just don't care anymore. I only commented in this thread due to the sheer stupidity of what her words were.
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Yes doctor, an army is forming.
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Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby TheRock » Wed May 30, 2007 8:16 am

Some nutjob wrote:Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it.


The way she worded it, I have trouble thinking she's referring to one specific course of action that really she only need persuade the President to take. She's referring to the rest of us not sharing her ideology. A major inconvenience probably caused by that whole freedom thing.

She has said she'd rather live under Hugo Chavez than George Bush. I say let her up walk the talk for once, take the money from the sale of the land she dedicated to her son and buy a one way ticket to Venezuela. Let her see what happens when she is critical of his government. Maybe teach her to show a little respect to the many who've died for her to have the freedoms she enjoys.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed May 30, 2007 8:19 am

"I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal," she said.


Good luck with that. :-°
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Postby The Big Train » Wed May 30, 2007 8:35 am

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
"I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal," she said.


Good luck with that. :-°


Yes, I would imagine that would be very difficult if you have lost a son under false pretenses. Your children burying you, not you burying your children and all that...
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Postby knapplc » Wed May 30, 2007 8:42 am

The Big Train wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
"I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal," she said.


Good luck with that. :-°


Yes, I would imagine that would be very difficult if you have lost a son under false pretenses. Your children burying you, not you burying your children and all that...


Dude, let it go. You're against the war. We get it.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed May 30, 2007 8:53 am

The Big Train wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
"I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal," she said.


Good luck with that. :-°


Yes, I would imagine that would be very difficult if you have lost a son under false pretenses. Your children burying you, not you burying your children and all that...


Yeah, that's what I meant. ;-7
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Postby The Big Train » Wed May 30, 2007 9:32 am

Madison wrote:
The Big Train wrote:Absurd, yes, but somehow I get the feeling that she was not really suggesting that the country “change to her exact political beliefs” as you put it,


It's not "how I put it", it's exactly word for word what she said. That's what I was commenting on. If she's talking about popular belief, then she should have said that, but that's not what she said.

As to the rest of your post, no offense meant, but I could care less about debating this policing action any further, so I'm skipping that part. You think we should be out, I think we should go full scale and end this quick. We're both entitled to our opinions on the matter and your post leaves a whole lot of things wide open to debate/discuss, but I just don't care anymore. I only commented in this thread due to the sheer stupidity of what her words were.


My comment wasn't on the policing issue or the war itself as you raised in your original message, but rather whether Sheehan's views is deserving of such scorn in the context of:

1. the perception held by many that freedom of expression and dissent exhibited by people like Sheehan are being gradually eroded, and

2. the United States' past history in Vietnam which raised many of the questions that people like Sheehan are raising today.

Indeed, she has said many stupid things that I would not support, e.g. living better under Chavez. But they seem trivial in the broader context of being arrested over a t-shirt (I wonder how the Founders would have reacted to this?!). I'm only suggesting that this is deserving of far more concern than any idiotic thing Sheehan says. If occasionally idiotic people like Sheehan are to be stifled (as she was in the State of the Union example), then at some point contrary opinions held by yourself or others may become stifled as well. That, IMHO, should be the object of everyone's ridicule reagrdless of their opinion about Sheehan. She engages in some hyperbole and rhetoric that is a bit over the top, but I'm suggesting that we ought to be careful in not engaging in the same when condeming her.
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Postby knapplc » Wed May 30, 2007 9:56 am

The Big Train wrote:
Madison wrote:
The Big Train wrote:Absurd, yes, but somehow I get the feeling that she was not really suggesting that the country “change to her exact political beliefs” as you put it,


It's not "how I put it", it's exactly word for word what she said. That's what I was commenting on. If she's talking about popular belief, then she should have said that, but that's not what she said.

As to the rest of your post, no offense meant, but I could care less about debating this policing action any further, so I'm skipping that part. You think we should be out, I think we should go full scale and end this quick. We're both entitled to our opinions on the matter and your post leaves a whole lot of things wide open to debate/discuss, but I just don't care anymore. I only commented in this thread due to the sheer stupidity of what her words were.


My comment wasn't on the policing issue or the war itself as you raised in your original message, but rather whether Sheehan's views is deserving of such scorn in the context of:

1. the perception held by many that freedom of expression and dissent exhibited by people like Sheehan are being gradually eroded, and

2. the United States' past history in Vietnam which raised many of the questions that people like Sheehan are raising today.

Indeed, she has said many stupid things that I would not support, e.g. living better under Chavez. But they seem trivial in the broader context of being arrested over a t-shirt (I wonder how the Founders would have reacted to this?!). I'm only suggesting that this is deserving of far more concern than any idiotic thing Sheehan says. If occasionally idiotic people like Sheehan are to be stifled (as she was in the State of the Union example), then at some point contrary opinions held by yourself or others may become stifled as well. That, IMHO, should be the object of everyone's ridicule reagrdless of their opinion about Sheehan. She engages in some hyperbole and rhetoric that is a bit over the top, but I'm suggesting that we ought to be careful in not engaging in the same when condeming her.


The problem people are having with your statements in this thread is that you seem dismissive of the valid gripes people level at her. Essentially you’re saying that because there is a greater wrong out there, her wrongs are OK. They’re not. Sheehan has committed treason in the eyes of many. It is overly simplistic to call what she is doing “idiotic.” It goes far beyond that.

If you want to criticize this Administration and the war they’re waging that’s cool. But at the same time you have to accept the fact that others may criticize how that criticism is being made.

And that’s cool too.
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Postby Madison » Wed May 30, 2007 10:23 am

The Big Train wrote:
Madison wrote:
The Big Train wrote:Absurd, yes, but somehow I get the feeling that she was not really suggesting that the country “change to her exact political beliefs” as you put it,


It's not "how I put it", it's exactly word for word what she said. That's what I was commenting on. If she's talking about popular belief, then she should have said that, but that's not what she said.

As to the rest of your post, no offense meant, but I could care less about debating this policing action any further, so I'm skipping that part. You think we should be out, I think we should go full scale and end this quick. We're both entitled to our opinions on the matter and your post leaves a whole lot of things wide open to debate/discuss, but I just don't care anymore. I only commented in this thread due to the sheer stupidity of what her words were.


My comment wasn't on the policing issue or the war itself as you raised in your original message, but rather whether Sheehan's views is deserving of such scorn in the context of:

1. the perception held by many that freedom of expression and dissent exhibited by people like Sheehan are being gradually eroded, and

2. the United States' past history in Vietnam which raised many of the questions that people like Sheehan are raising today.

Indeed, she has said many stupid things that I would not support, e.g. living better under Chavez. But they seem trivial in the broader context of being arrested over a t-shirt (I wonder how the Founders would have reacted to this?!). I'm only suggesting that this is deserving of far more concern than any idiotic thing Sheehan says. If occasionally idiotic people like Sheehan are to be stifled (as she was in the State of the Union example), then at some point contrary opinions held by yourself or others may become stifled as well. That, IMHO, should be the object of everyone's ridicule reagrdless of their opinion about Sheehan. She engages in some hyperbole and rhetoric that is a bit over the top, but I'm suggesting that we ought to be careful in not engaging in the same when condeming her.


Where in my quote did I quote anything about a T-shirt, Chavez, or anything else? I quoted one very stupid comment and pointed out how absurd her line of thinking is. Did I tell her to shut up? No. I'm not stifling her opinion of the policing action. All I did was point out the obvious that it's not the United State's responsibility to change to her every whim or desire and she's a total idiot to believe otherwise.

Now if you want to debate that specific point and say the United States is supposed to cater to her every whim and desire, fire away and I'll read it while chuckling. Otherwise, I have no desire to discuss the situation any further as it never leads to anything good or worthwhile.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
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Postby Coppermine » Wed May 30, 2007 10:35 am

I think that the fact that this is the United States means that this lady can say whatever she wants. That's the foundation of democracy in my opinion, if people don't criticize their government then things don't improve. Not saying her comments hold any water... she just shouldn't be condemned because of the argument that you shouldn't say something if nothing will come of it. It was all about media exposure. It's like Rosie O'Donnell or Ann Coulter. It's how the KKK can have rallies in your town and Fred Phelps can protest funerals. It's a free country, and that freedom should be unconditional. If it means people get to say things that some of us don't like, so be it. I say it's worth it.
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