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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby PlayingWithFire » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:47 pm

dynastykid22 wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
The Jury wrote:Sonnantine is not nearly the prospect that Bailey is. Bailey has been projected to be a top end pitcher while Sonnantine is projected to settle in as a middle-to-end of the rotation starter. Keep in mind that pitcher have the ace up their sleeve when they start out in a new league, so you will want to think about 5 or 10 starts down the road and on. Last I found, Sonnanstine doesn't throw hard, and his only plus pitch is his changeup. The AL East is also not a friendly division for pitchers.



Greg Maddux throw hard? You don't have to throw hard to get the job done. He moves the ball in and out, up and down and doesn't walk anyone. He lets his defense get him out of jams if he needs to. I am not saying to drop Bailey, but the guy can pitch and just b/c pitchers do not "throw hard" doesn't mean they can't pitch in a tough divison


Agrred ;D You dont have to throw hard to Git R Done ! But all you haters you have to give So-No props ! The guy has more heart and composure than any rookie this year (no I'm not saying he's the best), but he will be out to prove himself and will be very effective in his career. B-)


Stuff still doesn't impress me, once the league has saw him. He'll get hammered, and then we'll see how he adjust.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby The Jury » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:31 am

deerayfan072 wrote:
The Jury wrote:
brandnew wrote:Hmm... nice start today. Is he worth dropping Bailey for?


Sonnantine is not nearly the prospect that Bailey is. Bailey has been projected to be a top end pitcher while Sonnantine is projected to settle in as a middle-to-end of the rotation starter. Keep in mind that pitcher have the ace up their sleeve when they start out in a new league, so you will want to think about 5 or 10 starts down the road and on. Last I found, Sonnanstine doesn't throw hard, and his only plus pitch is his changeup. The AL East is also not a friendly division for pitchers.



Greg Maddux throw hard? You don't have to throw hard to get the job done. He moves the ball in and out, up and down and doesn't walk anyone. He lets his defense get him out of jams if he needs to. I am not saying to drop Bailey, but the guy can pitch and just b/c pitchers do not "throw hard" doesn't mean they can't pitch in a tough divison


I never that it was essential for a starter to throw hard, but rather was noting that he doesn't throw hard and that scouting reports I've read indicate that his only plus pitch is his changeup. It's definitely an advantage to have more velocity though - take a look at the top pitchers in baseball today: Santana, Oswalt, Peavy, Cain, Sheets, Halladay, Zambrano, Bonderman, Beckett, Clemens, Sabathia, etc. For every Greg Maddux "finesse freak" pitcher, there are a handful of successful pitcher who throw in the mid 90s.

As for the tough division, would you rather take a chance on pitcher in the AL East or one in any other division in baseball?

Per Roto Authority:

"23 year-old righty Andy Sonnanstine makes his big league debut tonight, facing off against Roy Halladay in Toronto. Should fantasy leaguers rush out to pick him up?

First, we turn to Baseball America for the scouting report. Interesting fact from BA: Sonnanstine's only plus pitch is a changeup he learned from Jamie Shields. He doesn't throw hard, but profiles as an innings-eater with fine control. Expectations are fairly low; most think he'll be a back-rotation starter.

Baseball Prospectus comparables among his top ten: Tomo Ohka, Justin Germano, Shaun Marcum, Dave Bush, Rodrigo Lopez. I think by now you're getting an idea of Sonnanstine's limited upside. His WHIP might be decent because of the low walk rate. He'll probably allow at least a hit per inning, but could have his career year when he beats that.

Sonnanstine will be susceptible to the home run, and his strikeout rate may be league average at best. Throw all that into the toughest division in baseball and you have a player you should avoid unless you're in a deep AL-only league."
[quote:4fef447375="Geek"]The odds of the AL MVP coming from the American League are looking pretty good.[/quote]
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:06 am

If you hit the correct spots you do not have to be overly powerful. As you can see by his minor league BB stats, he puts the ball where it is supposed to be. If he is off on his control i agree he will get hit hard b/c he lacks the great plus pitches, but he has been on in his control most of his minor career and in his 2 starts so far. He needs to have his control and be able to hit his spots, but i think if he does that he can be very effective. Again, I have said that he is not Bailey or one of the uber prospects, but he is a good middle of the rotation guy that can get outs and make sure you have a chance to win
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:47 am

deerayfan072 wrote:If you hit the correct spots you do not have to be overly powerful. As you can see by his minor league BB stats, he puts the ball where it is supposed to be. If he is off on his control i agree he will get hit hard b/c he lacks the great plus pitches, but he has been on in his control most of his minor career and in his 2 starts so far. He needs to have his control and be able to hit his spots, but i think if he does that he can be very effective. Again, I have said that he is not Bailey or one of the uber prospects, but he is a good middle of the rotation guy that can get outs and make sure you have a chance to win


bb rate isn't everything, there's a difference in accuracy in the zone too. He'll get hammered if he get too much of the plate. I mean a lot of HRs.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby J35J » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:59 am

PlayingWithFire wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:If you hit the correct spots you do not have to be overly powerful. As you can see by his minor league BB stats, he puts the ball where it is supposed to be. If he is off on his control i agree he will get hit hard b/c he lacks the great plus pitches, but he has been on in his control most of his minor career and in his 2 starts so far. He needs to have his control and be able to hit his spots, but i think if he does that he can be very effective. Again, I have said that he is not Bailey or one of the uber prospects, but he is a good middle of the rotation guy that can get outs and make sure you have a chance to win


bb rate isn't everything, there's a difference in accuracy in the zone too. He'll get hammered if he get too much of the plate. I mean a lot of HRs.


Exactly, another example.....Meche has been much better about not giving up as many walks this year but he can be very erratic within the strike zone so he gives up many more hits and hrs than his stuff should allow if he is hitting his spots. Just because you aren't giving up walks doesn't mean you are hitting you're spots! Having below avg "stuff" means you can't make as many mistakes WITHIN the strikezone. This is why there aren't many like Maddux and Glavine because there aren't many who can locate like that! With that said I like Sonnantine and he should be a solid #3 or 4 for quite a while.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby raiders_umpire » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:02 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:If you hit the correct spots you do not have to be overly powerful. As you can see by his minor league BB stats, he puts the ball where it is supposed to be. If he is off on his control i agree he will get hit hard b/c he lacks the great plus pitches, but he has been on in his control most of his minor career and in his 2 starts so far. He needs to have his control and be able to hit his spots, but i think if he does that he can be very effective. Again, I have said that he is not Bailey or one of the uber prospects, but he is a good middle of the rotation guy that can get outs and make sure you have a chance to win




I think Sonny will be a fine #5 for the Drays going forward. He will throw strikes and most importantly for a major league team is he will log the innings. He will be forced to be a #3 for the Drays the rest of this year, but once some of the good young arms come up next year, Sonny will be the Drays #5 and be solid. I don't think he will ever become a fantasy stud, but like Wang with the Yanks he could be useful in the future with the Drays offense getting him some wins.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:12 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:If you hit the correct spots you do not have to be overly powerful. As you can see by his minor league BB stats, he puts the ball where it is supposed to be. If he is off on his control i agree he will get hit hard b/c he lacks the great plus pitches, but he has been on in his control most of his minor career and in his 2 starts so far. He needs to have his control and be able to hit his spots, but i think if he does that he can be very effective. Again, I have said that he is not Bailey or one of the uber prospects, but he is a good middle of the rotation guy that can get outs and make sure you have a chance to win




I think Sonny will be a fine #5 for the Drays going forward. He will throw strikes and most importantly for a major league team is he will log the innings. He will be forced to be a #3 for the Drays the rest of this year, but once some of the good young arms come up next year, Sonny will be the Drays #5 and be solid. I don't think he will ever become a fantasy stud, but like Wang with the Yanks he could be useful in the future with the Drays offense getting him some wins.



Thats basically what i was talking about. He is not going to be a fantasy stud, but for the Rays he will be a solid back of the rotation guy. As far as the accuracy thing, that was my point about his accuracy, he hits his spots on the outside,inside, corners etc, and i said if he did not he would get knocked around.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:13 pm

Sonnanstine Sets Strikeout Mark In Rays Win

[Andy Sonnanstine] struck out a team-record seven batters in a row during one stretch in Tampa Bay’s 9-4 victory, adding singles in his first two professional at-bats to make himself the reluctant star of the game.
...
“He almost looks like younger version of El Duque,” [Marlins manager Fredi] Gonzalez told reporters. “He changes speeds, changes angles, throws strikes. He did a nice job.”

Maddon noted that Sonnanstine uses a full delivery that isn’t seen as much these days, helping him hide the ball from hitters a bit longer.

“He’s a pitcher,” said Maddon. “He studies his craft, he knows what he’s doing, and he’s constantly showing to a lot of young pitchers that you don’t have to be (radar) gun-favorable to pitch in the major leagues.”
...
He didn’t walk a batter and struck out 10, including that run of seven straight from the second inning through the fourth that broke the team mark of six Scott Kazmir had established April 8 at Tropicana Field.


FULL STORY
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby brandnew » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:19 pm

The Jury wrote:First, we turn to Baseball America for the scouting report. Interesting fact from BA: Sonnanstine's only plus pitch is a changeup he learned from Jamie Shields. He doesn't throw hard, but profiles as an innings-eater with fine control. Expectations are fairly low; most think he'll be a back-rotation starter.


Man, Jamie "Cy" Shields does it all. Not only does he lead my team closer to a championship, but he's so generous that he's willing to help out other teams.
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Re: Sonnanstine...

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:22 pm

brandnew wrote:
The Jury wrote:First, we turn to Baseball America for the scouting report. Interesting fact from BA: Sonnanstine's only plus pitch is a changeup he learned from Jamie Shields. He doesn't throw hard, but profiles as an innings-eater with fine control. Expectations are fairly low; most think he'll be a back-rotation starter.


Man, Jamie "Cy" Shields does it all. Not only does he lead my team closer to a championship, but he's so generous that he's willing to help out other teams.

:b :b
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