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Making it Illegal to Punt Saves.

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Postby yossarian » Sat May 26, 2007 2:20 pm

Never been a fan of the IP stat. I don't see how it makes sense and it leads to stuff like this. If that wasn't a cat, this wouldn't be a problem.

Other than that, you guys are playing within the rules as defined by the league. Everybody else is just mad they didn't think of it first and that it might work for you. The above camparison of punting HRs for SBs or vice versa is a good one.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat May 26, 2007 4:17 pm

Amatter32 wrote:IP as a category isn't a bad cat in my opinion. Having a max on IP while having it as a stat cat is bad.


I hate using IP as a cat because you don't do anything to win that cat other than trotting out more starters. I like to reward quality and not quantity.
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Postby dooz » Sat May 26, 2007 4:31 pm

with leagues that have more negative and ratio categories than a standard 5x5, IP can be helpful as a stat, although there are other, more efficient ways to combat that, if you so choose.

In my money, keeper league, IP was used to keep people from using relief pitching mainly. It would definitely be the first stat to dismiss IMO but it is also cool to see active pitching battles at the end of the week.

But, back to the point, if you are playing within the league settings and everything, they have no leg to stand on. If its a keeper, you can't really change the settings now.

There is no "gentlemen's agreements". Either you create a system that devalues this kind of strategy or you put up and shut up.
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Postby lesieu » Sat May 26, 2007 4:44 pm

I'm in a 12 team mixed H2H league.

Learn form experienece for the future!

It has been years that me and some frineds playthe same non keeper leagues and we've had several strategies that made us change our settings/ categories over time, and we like it.

We have IP,W,CG,SHO,SV,BB,K,ERA
SP,SP,SP,RP,RP,P

Pretty much everybody uses their P slot to fill in a closer but it's your choice to try to use a SP if he's playing.

I remember back when we didn't have IP some guys will play only their closers winning half of the pitching stats (you don't get CG/SHO very week those are like gifts :p ) therefore they focused only on offense, that's why one year we added IP to encourage everybody the use of SP. Other year we added MAX moves to control the pitching streaming, and so on. Our league has been equally balance since.
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Postby Amatter32 » Sat May 26, 2007 5:07 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Amatter32 wrote:IP as a category isn't a bad cat in my opinion. Having a max on IP while having it as a stat cat is bad.


I hate using IP as a cat because you don't do anything to win that cat other than trotting out more starters. I like to reward quality and not quantity.


Not unless you have a GS max in place.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat May 26, 2007 5:44 pm

I remember back when we didn't have IP some guys will play only their closers winning half of the pitching stats (you don't get CG/SHO very week those are like gifts :p ) therefore they focused only on offense, that's why one year we added IP to encourage everybody the use of SP. Other year we added MAX moves to control the pitching streaming, and so on. Our league has been equally balance since.


Why can't you just set the minimum weekly IP to something like 30??

Amatter32 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Amatter32 wrote:IP as a category isn't a bad cat in my opinion. Having a max on IP while having it as a stat cat is bad.


I hate using IP as a cat because you don't do anything to win that cat other than trotting out more starters. I like to reward quality and not quantity.


Not unless you have a GS max in place.


I don't see how that matters. You are still rewarding nothing but quantity. Sure, you're maximizing the quality of each start but those 2 cats make little to no sense to me.
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Postby duckbillgates » Sat May 26, 2007 5:46 pm

jfg wrote:My keeper league starts 3 SP and 2 RP. Our rule is this: The role the pitcher is in in the majors is the role he has to be used in. I love the rule.

We also have a rule that you can only have 7 starters (players listed as starters but not in that role don't count) on the roster. Even though we are a weekly league it limits churning out two start pitchers and puts a higher value on top tier pitching.

Both of these rules are to make the game more about managing an actual MLB team instead of finding ways to manipulate the game. I'm in other non-money leagues where I use those tactics, but I have found I have had the most enjoyment in the league with those rules.


My main league has similar rules, and I agree, they are great. I wish more leagues would embrace this.

We also have roster requirements that we have exactly 5 SP and 4 RP, and we start 3 SP and 2 RP with weekly changes.

The effect is that it rewards you for having the best pitching, not the most. You can't win saves by hoarding closers. You can't win wins and strikeouts just by churning starters.

But back to the original post, I don't think the league should change rules mid-season just because you found a way to exploit them. Good leagues (like mine) ancipate things like this and have rules in place. A rule change for next year seems like a good idea, but you should be free to continue this for the rest of this season.
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Postby lesieu » Sat May 26, 2007 6:40 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
I remember back when we didn't have IP some guys will play only their closers winning half of the pitching stats (you don't get CG/SHO very week those are like gifts :p ) therefore they focused only on offense, that's why one year we added IP to encourage everybody the use of SP. Other year we added MAX moves to control the pitching streaming, and so on. Our league has been equally balance since.


Why can't you just set the minimum weekly IP to something like 30??

Some of us look for pitches that go the distance in look for the CG/SHO and if any of my pitchers did, I would only have 21 IP left for that week.
I like the league the way it is, you can stream pitchers as long as you don't run out of moves knowing that you might lose the BB and ERA.
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Postby noseeum » Sat May 26, 2007 7:20 pm

This is totally just sour grapes. You took a look at the scoring format, and you decided on a strategy you thought might maximize your ability to succeed under the given scoring format. Isn't that precisely the purpose of fantasy baseball?

There are some players that are great assets for a fantasy squad that are barely average MLB players, speed guys in particular. What's the difference?

I can see saying IP is a terrible category, and I agree, but if I had IP in my league, I'd do what I could to win it, just like any other category.
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Postby Rubidium » Sun May 27, 2007 12:37 am

Right. As others have said, you've done nothing wrong, and, unless everyone in the league agrees, you can't change the rules in a keeper. Throwing IP in as a category with the standard 5x5 categories clearly favors SP over RP, and the other owners should have realized this as well.
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