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Making it Illegal to Punt Saves.

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Making it Illegal to Punt Saves.

Postby Murderers Rowboat » Sat May 26, 2007 10:06 am

I'm in a weekly 8-team keeper league that has the following roster settings: 5 SPs and 2 RPs and the categories IP, W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP. As an experiment, I and another manager have decided to forego "traditional" relievers and start SP/RP types in the RP slots.

This has caused quite a stir in the league. Several of the managers are up in arms that we are abusing the league settings. They argue that we are not playing the game the way it was intended to be played and that we are affecting the quality of the leauge by stealing guaranteed points in cumulative categories like IP, W, and Ks.

They say this is a lazy way to ensure a middle of the pack finish (by grabbing easy points) and thereby not finishing in the basement. I should note that there is a cumulative payout for the team with the best record after 3 years (we're currently in the first year), so finishing at the bottom of the pile is pretty costly. However, they say that the damage we do to our ERAs and WHIPs by starting SP/RPs ensures that we will not be contenders to win the pool this year.

There seemed to be a consensus that our strategy is bad for the league and needs to be addressed in subsequent seasons (ie. a gentlemen's agreement to use only traditional relievers in the RP spot).

I contended that it was an experimental strategy and that I hope to win the pool using this method. I don't see why it's a bad thing to let different managers apply different strategies. Isn't a good thing to allow people to try different things and take risks? Is my league crazy for wanting to abolish this practice?
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat May 26, 2007 10:39 am

I promised myself that I would never respond to any post that mentions using IP as a cat but I will. The only problem that I would have is if you were the commish and you purposely exploited the league but, even then, the league settings were there for all to see. If no one else used them to their advantage, that's on them and not you.
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Postby cwrtlm » Sat May 26, 2007 10:43 am

I saw that is just sour grapes on there parts. Funny story about a similar strategy I had in FFB. I joined some pub leagues on Foxsports last year in order to try some new strategies for my money leagues. I drafted all the best QB's in one league and WR's in the other. I then worked out trades to acquire the best other portions of my team. I ended up winning the league by trading QB's for other parts, but I finished 3rd in the WR leagues. Interesting though, that people emailed me and criticized me but were all to happy to trade me their players for the likes of Manning, McNabb and Palmer. ;-D
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Postby Ursa » Sat May 26, 2007 11:15 am

I agree that IP is a silly cat but apart from that I don't see why using SP/RP in RP slots is a bad thing. It's just a strategy. In our league where we have holds and saves, it's common to punt one or the other. Not quite the same thing but if a manager wants to punt saves to strengthen other cats, why not?

Worth looking again at your overall cat balance though, I would think.
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Postby chadlincoln » Sat May 26, 2007 11:26 am

Illegal not to have a closer? Kinda like the Phillies?
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Postby Tavish » Sat May 26, 2007 11:31 am

Are they upset that you are punting saves or upset that you are using the multi-eligible players to do so?

If it is the former then the league should review the categories for next season. The league being a keeper format makes that a difficult task without upsetting someone.

If it the latter, then you might discuss making all the pitcher slots the generic Pitcher instead of breaking it down to SP and RP.
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Postby joecahill » Sat May 26, 2007 11:52 am

Tavish wrote:Are they upset that you are punting saves or upset that you are using the multi-eligible players to do so?

If it is the former then the league should review the categories for next season. The league being a keeper format makes that a difficult task without upsetting someone.

If it the latter, then you might discuss making all the pitcher slots the generic Pitcher instead of breaking it down to SP and RP.


That's exactly what I was going to suggest. One of my leagues is a weekly H2H that starts six P's, not broken up into SP/RP. Anyone can start any pitcher for the week, and we haven't run into this problem. The top four teams, though, are the teams with the best balance between SP/RP.

Besides, why should it be illegal to punt saves for other categories? Would you still be having this problem if you were punting SBs for HRs? HRs for SBs? If so, you probably just need to find new league-mates.
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Re: Making it Illegal to Punt Saves.

Postby jswede » Sat May 26, 2007 12:42 pm

so you have a set of rules and no one is breaking any of them?

the other guys are just pissed they are not as smart as the owner in question.

end of story. let them bitch.... or gee - maybe adapt??? what a concept.

change the rule next year if you wish, but there should not be a penalty for being a smarter owner.
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Postby Amatter32 » Sat May 26, 2007 12:58 pm

A gentlemen's agreement saying what, you must have two closers all the time?


IP as a category isn't a bad cat in my opinion. Having a max on IP while having it as a stat cat is bad.
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Postby jfg » Sat May 26, 2007 12:59 pm

My keeper league starts 3 SP and 2 RP. Our rule is this: The role the pitcher is in in the majors is the role he has to be used in. I love the rule.

We also have a rule that you can only have 7 starters (players listed as starters but not in that role don't count) on the roster. Even though we are a weekly league it limits churning out two start pitchers and puts a higher value on top tier pitching.

Both of these rules are to make the game more about managing an actual MLB team instead of finding ways to manipulate the game. I'm in other non-money leagues where I use those tactics, but I have found I have had the most enjoyment in the league with those rules.
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