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Postby trevisc » Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:34 am

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Postby j7 » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:01 am

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Postby wrveres » Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:33 am

its so typical and they never get it ..


7 pages of Democratic attack, attack, attack. Not one solution.
Heck not one awnser to any of the questions posed in this thread either ..... actually Arlo piped in with one possibly solution.

Jive, While I did/do think that Nader and Buchanan have some solid ideas, apparently the rest of the country doesn't.

Conservatism has been sweeping across this country since the early '80s and the Democratic party is in complete disarray becuase of it! Why? because, much like this thread has shown, they have no real plan other than to lash out, and make fun of. All of the people you have actually taken the time to think about the issues have become conservative. My guess is that we could get to page 14 and there would still be no real "new" thoughts or solutions presented for us to examine. why? because they have none.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:17 pm

WR.......Why are you so stereotypical when it comes to Democrats? I don't feel like looking through pages of comments but how many solutions have you come up with? I, for 1, don't remember anyone actually asking for any solutions. You seem to think that the only way for there to be any solutions is for there to be more Republicans in office. Well, we have 1 so we shouldn't need anything else because all is well now. Right? This is a fantasy baseball board. I don't remember it asking for my political views when I signed up for this board.

I thought that eftda was bad in his defense of Bonds. I suppose that it was a Democrat that planted those pills on Limbaugh as well, right?

Lashing out by Democrats? What is it that you are doing? Lashing out about lashing out?

P.S. And I'm not even a Democrat.
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Postby ramble2 » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:37 pm

wrveres wrote:its so typical and they never get it ..


7 pages of Democratic attack, attack, attack. Not one solution.
Heck not one awnser to any of the questions posed in this thread either ..... actually Arlo piped in with one possibly solution.

Jive, While I did/do think that Nader and Buchanan have some solid ideas, apparently the rest of the country doesn't.

Conservatism has been sweeping across this country since the early '80s and the Democratic party is in complete disarray becuase of it! Why? because, much like this thread has shown, they have no real plan other than to lash out, and make fun of. All of the people you have actually taken the time to think about the issues have become conservative. My guess is that we could get to page 14 and there would still be no real "new" thoughts or solutions presented for us to examine. why? because they have none.


This is just silly. I posted a single comment in this thread, but for the most part avoided it b/c its been a combination of a series of attacks back and forth and ridiculous stereotypical generalizations. You say there are pages and pages of Democratic attack. Have you read this thread? There's just as much Republican attack and triumphalism as anything else (and no, I'm not claiming it is all one way or the other).
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Postby ramble2 » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:37 pm

wrveres wrote:its so typical and they never get it ..


7 pages of Democratic attack, attack, attack. Not one solution.
Heck not one awnser to any of the questions posed in this thread either ..... actually Arlo piped in with one possibly solution.

Jive, While I did/do think that Nader and Buchanan have some solid ideas, apparently the rest of the country doesn't.

Conservatism has been sweeping across this country since the early '80s and the Democratic party is in complete disarray becuase of it! Why? because, much like this thread has shown, they have no real plan other than to lash out, and make fun of. All of the people you have actually taken the time to think about the issues have become conservative. My guess is that we could get to page 14 and there would still be no real "new" thoughts or solutions presented for us to examine. why? because they have none.


Now you're upset that the Democrats haven't offered any solutions? Solutions to what? I didn't realize that this thread had actually turned to any semblance of intelligent discussion of issues. Or are you referring to your claims that Democrats want to 'free all prisoners' and 'lock up all guns'. Okay, let's talk about that. I'm a Democrat and I think that criminals ought to be punished in a manner in accordance to the crime committed. In fact, I think we have a moral obligation to do this. This doesn't mean 'free all prisoners', it means punish them in a just and fair manner. I think it is unjust to caught off the hand of a thief, but I also think its unjust to let a thief walk free. Who do you think is more likely to walk free, the thief we catch in the street, or the CEO who's just ransacked the company pension fund? Laws need to be enforced across the board.

Or your response 'lock up all the guns'? Personally, I think Gore lost the 2000 election just b/c he failed to make an important distinction between handguns and hunting rifles. I don't want to get into a discussion of gun laws, etc., but suffice to say that I don't want to lock up all guns. Practically speaking, it's not clear that it's possible or even would do any good. There are different kinds of guns and they should be treated differently. I don't think it's unreasonable, for example, to have a law requiring people to register their handguns.
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Postby ramble2 » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:39 pm

wrveres wrote:its so typical and they never get it ..


7 pages of Democratic attack, attack, attack. Not one solution.
Heck not one awnser to any of the questions posed in this thread either ..... actually Arlo piped in with one possibly solution.

Jive, While I did/do think that Nader and Buchanan have some solid ideas, apparently the rest of the country doesn't.

Conservatism has been sweeping across this country since the early '80s and the Democratic party is in complete disarray becuase of it! Why? because, much like this thread has shown, they have no real plan other than to lash out, and make fun of. All of the people you have actually taken the time to think about the issues have become conservative. My guess is that we could get to page 14 and there would still be no real "new" thoughts or solutions presented for us to examine. why? because they have none.


Or do you want solutions to broader issues? I'm a democrat, and I'm also a strong supporter of free trade. I am worried about the current crop of Dem presidential hopefuls and their move away from Free Trade - although thankfully the voters of Iowa seem to have sent the right message back home. The Bush administration has been downright horrible in promoting Free Trade with other countries. Global trade networks are breaking down. This is not good. The best way to help the poor of the world is to allow them to develop their markets. Clinton, and democrats like him, understand this and worked to promote this. On a domestic front, the Clinton economic team understood the importance of developing a strong bond market as the basis for a strong economy. It allows for companies to borrow money and make investments easily. The Bush administration is basing its economic model on tax cuts, damn the effect this may have in terms of deficits and the bond market.

Tax cuts are great, but I'd like to see them doled out in a different way. Instead of the cuts Bush proposed, I'd much rather see something like 'the first $30,000 of everybody's income is tax free'. This would put more money into everyone's pocket. Rather than huge tax cuts for a few very wealthy individuals, this sort of tax cut would result in significant tax cuts for most Americans. Combining this kind of tax cut with tax laws encouraging investments would help stimulate the economy.

I'm done with this thread though. wrveres, I respect your baseball knowledge and discussions. It's too bad you can't bring the same reasoned analysis to political thinking. I've been giving everyone benefit of the doubt and assuming that this thread was just blowing off steam. But your complaint that the Dems haven't offered any real solutions, and your persistent stereotyping of all Dems as people who don't think about the issues suggests otherwise. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I've been reading, but not posting on this thread. There is no room here for real discussion or solutions. It's just been vitriol and vicious stereotypes thrown back and forth. It's useless. Actually, it's worth than useless because it discourages people from actually thinking about things and getting involved. It's why people are turned off of politics, and only serves to encourage a further polarization. Sorry for the rant.
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Postby lesgrant » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:00 am

BigLebowski wrote:Come on guys lets don't turn on each other...we are all American's.

Let us unite and turn our hatred towards the evil empire in the east......The Yankee's.


Yeah, Bush DESPERATELY needs another enemy now that we all know (from his own appointed inspector) the WMDs in Iraq were a complete fabrication of Bush/Chaney to pad the pockets of their oil buddies at Haliburton via a no-bid contract.

Bush=
C+ student @ Yale, C+ president who couldn't even win the popular vote. We all know what happened to the only other president who won the election but lost the pop. vote.

Can any right winger on this board name one clear accomplishment of this administration? The economy? 911? Anthrax investigation? What's this loser going to be remembered for after he's out in November? Maybe it's his leadership ability to unite everyone in the world and in this country behind his agenda.

"Where's my cheesburger Karl?!?!" :~(
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Postby lesgrant » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:06 am

wrveres wrote:Conservatism has been sweeping across this country since the early '80s and the Democratic party is in complete disarray becuase of it!


Yeah I guess that's why Clinton was a two term president and Al Gore received more votes than Bush in 2000.

Stick to baseball or learn how to count.
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Postby lesgrant » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:46 am

Some facts about Mr. Mission Accomplished's military record:

1. George W. Bush graduated from Yale in 1968 when the war in Vietnam was at its most deadly and the military draft was in effect. Like many of his social class and age, he sought to enter the National Guard, which made Vietnam service unlikely, and fulfill his military obligation. Competition for slots was intense; there was a long waiting list. Bush took the Air Force officer and pilot qualification tests on Jan. 17, 1968, and scored the lowest allowed passing grade on the pilot aptitude portion.



2. He, nevertheless, was sworn in on May 27, 1968, for a six-year commitment. After a few weeks of basic training, Bush received an appointment as a second lieutenant – a rank usually reserved for those completing four years of ROTC or 18 months active duty service. Bush then went to flight school and trained on the F-102 interceptor fighter jet. Fighter pilots were in great demand in Vietnam at the time, but Bush wound up serving as a “weekend warrior” in Houston, where his father’s congressional district was centered.



A Houston Chronicle story published in 1994, quoted in Corn’s book, has Bush saying: “I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes.”



3. Sometime after May 1971, young Lt. Bush stopped participating regularly in Guard activities. According to Texas Air National Guard records, he had fewer than the required flight duty days and was short of the minimum service owed the Guard. Records indicate that Bush never flew after May 1972, despite his expensive training and even though he still owed the National Guard two more years.



4. On May 24, 1972, Bush asked to be transferred to an inactive reserve unit in Alabama, where he also would be working on a Republican senate candidate’s campaign. The request was denied. For months, Bush apparently put in no time at all in Guard service. In August 1972, Bush was grounded -- suspended from flying duties -- for failing to submit to an annual physical exam. (Why wouldn't he take this exam from a doctor?)



5. During his 2000 presidential campaign, Bush’s staff said he recalled doing duty in Alabama and then returning to Houston for still more duty. But the commander of the Montgomery, AL, unit where Bush said he served told the Boston Globe that he had no recollection of Bush – son of a congressman – ever reporting, nor are there records, as there should be, supporting Bush’s claim. Asked at a press conference in Alabama on June 23, 2000 what duties he had performed as a Guardsman in that state, Bush said he could not recall, “but I was there.”



6. In May, June and July, 1973, Bush suddenly started participating in Guard activities back in Houston again – pulling 36 days at Ellington Air Base in that short period. On Oct. 1, 1973, eight months short of his six-year service obligation and scheduled discharge, Bush apparently was discharged with honors from the Texas Air National Guard (eight months short of his six-year commitment). He then went to Harvard Business School.
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