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What do you do about keeper fire sales?

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Postby Rounders » Tue May 22, 2007 3:07 pm

I'd take a 3rd and 8th round pick for hunter and verlander if I was playing for next year. And to get Pence when I can keep him as an 8th rounder could be a good deal (if he continues what he's doing).

One way to keep the damage of fire sales down is to put in the constitution that you can only trade with teams that are within a certain rank of you (say within 4 spots). That keeps the 1st place team from trading with the last place team, because the best he could do is trade with the 5th place team. Our league doesn't do this, but I've heard of leagues that do, and it was proposed in our league but got shot down.
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Postby bigh0rt » Tue May 22, 2007 3:12 pm

slomo007 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league


Isn't that exactly what he's doing by trading someone like A-Rod for Lincecum (hypothetical trade)? IMO firesales really hurt leagues, and while they are a part of keeper leagues I hate when they happen.


Well, that particular, hypothetical trade, falls under destroying the competitive balance of the league. ;-) However, what he's referring to in the original post is hardly within the same ballpark (not that you said it was).

There's also the factor of how many players you each get to keep, and the Commissioner can use better judgment and/or talk with the selling owner and see why he's making X or Y trade. If the owner can justify his actions logically, and it makes sense for his team going forward, with the cost being him finishing 12th instead of 10th, for example, then you can hardly fault the guy.
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Postby hot4tx » Tue May 22, 2007 3:13 pm

We've added a clause that you can't have more than 2 picks in any round and no more than 3 picks in any 2 rounds. This allows these types of trades but prevents someone from doing 6 of them or something and having an enormous advantage the following year.
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Postby markj11 » Tue May 22, 2007 3:14 pm

slomo007 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league


Isn't that exactly what he's doing by trading someone like A-Rod for Lincecum (hypothetical trade)? IMO firesales really hurt leagues, and while they are a part of keeper leagues I hate when they happen.


I think I agree that this would destroy the competitive balance of the league. Now we only have 9 competitors instead of 10.
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Postby Yoda » Tue May 22, 2007 3:14 pm

markj11 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:It doesn't appear that anything is wrong here. It's the nature of a keeper league. If an owner generally feels he has no chance at winning or competing or whatever this season, he is well within his rights to make any necessary moves that he feels will make his team more competitive next season, provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league or colluding with other owners. Maybe you as a team who is competing don't like him moving players to your competition to make them better, but, you have to live with it, or just play redraft leagues.


I agree, the comish thinks this:
The problem I face, guys, is that the league's rules don't contemplate irrational or agenda-oriented trades or the possibility that a GM will throw in the towel and attempt to give away his better players almost before the season begins. That's why we have a commissioner, I reckon, a guy whose duty is to torpedo such things so that competitive balance can be preserved.


I think it's retarded to allow any person with vested interested in the league have the power to veto trades. Just my opinion...
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Postby markj11 » Tue May 22, 2007 3:16 pm

Yoda wrote:
markj11 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:It doesn't appear that anything is wrong here. It's the nature of a keeper league. If an owner generally feels he has no chance at winning or competing or whatever this season, he is well within his rights to make any necessary moves that he feels will make his team more competitive next season, provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league or colluding with other owners. Maybe you as a team who is competing don't like him moving players to your competition to make them better, but, you have to live with it, or just play redraft leagues.


I agree, the comish thinks this:
The problem I face, guys, is that the league's rules don't contemplate irrational or agenda-oriented trades or the possibility that a GM will throw in the towel and attempt to give away his better players almost before the season begins. That's why we have a commissioner, I reckon, a guy whose duty is to torpedo such things so that competitive balance can be preserved.


I think it's retarded to allow any person with vested interested in the league have the power to veto trades. Just my opinion...


We voted on the comish. He does allow everyone to voice their views. I am just starting to think that this could turn into the bottom 2-3 teams selling out every year.
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Postby Rounders » Tue May 22, 2007 3:17 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league


Isn't that exactly what he's doing by trading someone like A-Rod for Lincecum (hypothetical trade)? IMO firesales really hurt leagues, and while they are a part of keeper leagues I hate when they happen.


Well, that particular, hypothetical trade, falls under destroying the competitive balance of the league. ;-) However, what he's referring to in the original post is hardly within the same ballpark (not that you said it was).

There's also the factor of how many players you each get to keep, and the Commissioner can use better judgment and/or talk with the selling owner and see why he's making X or Y trade. If the owner can justify his actions logically, and it makes sense for his team going forward, with the cost being him finishing 12th instead of 10th, for example, then you can hardly fault the guy.


It will help him next year because he'll get an extra 3rd and 8th round pick and has the option of keeping Pence as an 8th rounder. If his team is that bad this year, it won't hurt him if he's not going to finish in the money (and he can very well know that already). And it won't hurt him next year since you only keep 3 players, so hunter and verlander wouldn't be keepers anyways. This is a better deal for the guy that's getting the picks than it is for the guy that's getting Hunter and Verlander.

It may help the one team finish in the money this year, but any other team had the same option of trading with this guy if they were willing to give up that much value next year.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue May 22, 2007 3:17 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:provided he isn't destroying the competitive balance of the league


Isn't that exactly what he's doing by trading someone like A-Rod for Lincecum (hypothetical trade)? IMO firesales really hurt leagues, and while they are a part of keeper leagues I hate when they happen.


Well, that particular, hypothetical trade, falls under destroying the competitive balance of the league. ;-) However, what he's referring to in the original post is hardly within the same ballpark (not that you said it was).

There's also the factor of how many players you each get to keep, and the Commissioner can use better judgment and/or talk with the selling owner and see why he's making X or Y trade. If the owner can justify his actions logically, and it makes sense for his team going forward, with the cost being him finishing 12th instead of 10th, for example, then you can hardly fault the guy.


Yeah I understand the logic of allowing them, and honestly don't veto them usually but man they drive me crazy sometimes. With the way Lincecum is being hyped I really could see a trade like that happening in some keeper leagues this year. Or maybe not for A-rod, but say, Jeter. He's aging and is on the downturn of his career but is obviously still a very good player. And no disrespect to Lincecum but he's going to be dealt for absolute gold this year when he's in all likelihood not worth it for at least a couple years.
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Postby markj11 » Tue May 22, 2007 3:18 pm

hot4tx wrote:We've added a clause that you can't have more than 2 picks in any round and no more than 3 picks in any 2 rounds. This allows these types of trades but prevents someone from doing 6 of them or something and having an enormous advantage the following year.


I like this.
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Postby Rounders » Tue May 22, 2007 3:22 pm

markj11 wrote:
hot4tx wrote:We've added a clause that you can't have more than 2 picks in any round and no more than 3 picks in any 2 rounds. This allows these types of trades but prevents someone from doing 6 of them or something and having an enormous advantage the following year.


I like this.


We don't allow trading of picks at all. Maybe not your cup of tea, but it makes things easier since we do on-line drafts.
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