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Most Overrated Players of All-Time

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Postby bigh0rt » Tue May 22, 2007 2:28 pm

For fun, here's the way I'd rank all-time 3Bs Tav. I know your feelings on Schmidt, but I'd love to hear why.

1. Mike Schmidt
2. Eddie Mathews
3. Wade Boggs
4. George Brett
5. Chipper Jones
6. Scott Rolen
7. Brooks Robinson
8. Ron Santo
9. Frank Baker
10. Buddy Bell

Honorable Mentions would go to Nettles, Boyert, and Cy.

I still consider A-Rod a SS, but in a few years after he's been a 3B longer, he'll skyrocket way up this list.
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Postby bigh0rt » Tue May 22, 2007 2:29 pm

405z06 wrote:I've seen some arguments that make the case for Joe Carter being very overated. I can't remember the source (James?). I know he is not a HOF-caliber player, but... that's my $.02


Joe Carter made $50 million in his career, and as far as I'm concerned, he was stealing from people. :-b He's definitely one of the more overrated players in league history.

You hear his name mentioned and your brain immediately thinks of a great player, but then you pull up his numbers and you're like :-?
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Postby noseeum » Tue May 22, 2007 2:41 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Tavish wrote:If you were to rank your All-Time 3B where would you put Robinson?
Where would you rank Rose among the game's greatest players?


I'd place Brooks Robinson in the Top 10, but not the Top 5. Below average with the bat, but top notch defensively. Rose would likely be in the 75th overall or so range. He couldn't slug worth a crap, but he did have value.


I don't even know how to rate Pete Rose. He just stuck around so much longer than is typical that I have a hard time comparing.

Brooks I'd agree is top 10 but not top 5.
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Postby noseeum » Tue May 22, 2007 2:56 pm

elldog5 wrote:Whoever said Biggio could be considered the player of the 90's, what are you thinking?

How about Griffey, Big Hurt, Sosa, Magwire, Maddux, Clemens, RJ, I know you said Bonds, they were all better. There are probably more.


And none of them played second base. Thomas played DH, so he's out as the top. Griffey was no Bonds, so he's out. Maddux, Clemens, yeah I guess, but they're pitchers. Prob shouldn't have even mentioned Pedro.

I just checked, and Bill James puts Biggio as the number 2 player of the 90s. He does add, though, that Biggio is closer in value to number 10 than he is to number 1, highlighting how incredibly good Bonds was.

Here's his list:
1. Bonds
2. Biggio
3. Thomas
4. Griffey
5. Bagwell
6. Palmeiro
7. Larkin
8. Alomar
9. McGwire
10. Maddux

Keep in mind this list was published in 2001, before Bonds REALLY kicked it up a notch.
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Postby bigh0rt » Tue May 22, 2007 2:57 pm

Didn't James more recently drop some of his mancrush on Biggio? I thought I recalled reading something where he said he had drastically overvalued him...
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Postby noseeum » Tue May 22, 2007 3:07 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Didn't James more recently drop some of his mancrush on Biggio? I thought I recalled reading something where he said he had drastically overvalued him...


I doubt he could change so drastically, esp after saying things like this:

"Craig Biggio is the best player in Major League Baseball today (2000). If you compare Craig Biggio very carefully to Ken Griffey, Jr. in almost any season, you will find that Biggio has contributed more to his team than Griffey has. Let's do 1998 as a starting point...in 1998 Ken Griffey outhomered Biggio 56 to 20, which was a huge thing, 36 homers. Biggio's advantages were...well, everything else." - Bill James, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract
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Postby mclusky » Tue May 22, 2007 3:07 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Didn't James more recently drop some of his mancrush on Biggio? I thought I recalled reading something where he said he had drastically overvalued him...

He has written that he was too hasty in ranking Biggio above Lajoie and Gehringer at 2nd base, career-wise. That had to do with Biggio's post 2000 decline, though; it was not James changing his mind on Biggio's peak value.
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Postby Ender » Tue May 22, 2007 3:32 pm

Put me down for Kirby Puckett. How this guy is in the hall of fame is beyond me.
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Postby jnormy » Tue May 22, 2007 3:37 pm

noseeum wrote: If you compare Craig Biggio very carefully to Ken Griffey, Jr. in almost any season, you will find that Biggio has contributed more to his team than Griffey has. Let's do 1998 as a starting point...in 1998 Ken Griffey outhomered Biggio 56 to 20, which was a huge thing, 36 homers. Biggio's advantages were...well, everything else." - Bill James, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract


OK, all that does is prove James has a man crush on Biggio and as a result isn't able to make a fair assessment. "Everything else" huh? Like triples? KGJ 3, Biggio 2. How about RBI? KGJ 146, Biggio 88! Walks, KGJ 76 to 64. Slugging? KGJ .611 to .503. OPS? KGJ .977 to .906. Total bases? KGJ 387 to 325. Even runs, which you would think Biggio would have won going away, was close: 123 for Biggio, 120 for KGJ.

So much for James's credibility when talking about his boy Biggio... :-t
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Postby blankman » Tue May 22, 2007 3:41 pm

Ender wrote:Put me down for Kirby Puckett. How this guy is in the hall of fame is beyond me.


Great choice.
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