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Postby Coppermine » Tue May 22, 2007 11:23 am

Lofunzo wrote:I don't love that the government micromanages like they do but, if the bottom line is that it stops me from footing some of the bill because you chose not to wear a seatbelt, I can live with that.


How do you feel about footing the bill from motorcyclists who get into accidents without being required by law to wear a helmet?
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Postby Big Pimpin » Tue May 22, 2007 11:35 am

Coppermine wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:I don't love that the government micromanages like they do but, if the bottom line is that it stops me from footing some of the bill because you chose not to wear a seatbelt, I can live with that.


How do you feel about footing the bill from motorcyclists who get into accidents without being required by law to wear a helmet?


That's my big thing. Arizona doesn't have helmet laws, but they have seatbelt laws. And I don't get it. Frankly I fall of the opinion that you should wear it, but no one should make me wear it. I think if you're under 18, you absolutely HAVE to wear it, but when you become legal age it should become a choice issue.

It's funny, I used to hate the cops in the small town where I grew up. There was nothing going on and they spent all their time busting parties and pulling you over if you were going 5 MPH over the limit and what not. But now that I live in Phoenix, they seem to actually be here to "protect and serve." They usually don't care if you're going 78 in a 65, because there are shootings and robberies and murders and stuff that they have to get to. And now I'm not sure which is worse. :-o
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Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 22, 2007 11:45 am

You guys think you have it bad...I will probably hear these commercials literally 150 times this week. God they are annoying.

Anyway, I'm with the 'anti-seatbelt/helmet law' folks. I wear my seatbelt all the time, but I don't think people should have to do so by law. Take something else that causes high medical/insurance costs like smoking. Would anyone who wants seatbelt laws advocate for making smoking illegal? Actually, you could make a better case for outlawing smoking because second-hand smoke actually effects people other than the user. Anyway, I don't smoke, and I do wear a seatbelt, but I don't think there should be laws prohibiting or requiring people to do so.

And if you think people should be legally forced to wear seatbelts, why not helmets? Not on motorcycles, but in cars? Studies have shown that people who wear helmets while driving are far less likely to suffer severe head injuries during an accident than people who don't wear them. Where do we draw the line?

I actually support laws that say that people under 16 must wear seatbelts/can't smoke/can't ride in truck beds/etc. because too many parents are idiots, and children can't be expected to make wise decisions for themselves at a young age, so I think they have to be somewhat protected, but as far as I'm concerned, adults should be able to do essentially whatever the hell the want, provided their actions don't affect--or have the potential to affect--others.
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Postby Coppermine » Tue May 22, 2007 11:47 am

Art Vandelay wrote:You guys think you have it bad...I will probably hear these commercials literally 150 times this week. God they are annoying.

Anyway, I'm with the 'anti-seatbelt/helmet law' folks. I wear my seatbelt all the time, but I don't think people should have to do so by law. Take something else that causes high medical/insurance costs like smoking. Would anyone who wants seatbelt laws advocate for making smoking illegal? Actually, you could make a better case for outlawing smoking because second-hand smoke actually effects people other than the user. Anyway, I don't smoke, and I do wear a seatbelt, but I don't think there should be laws prohibiting or requiring people to do so.

And if you think people should be legally forced to wear seatbelts, why not helmets? Not on motorcycles, but in cars? Studies have shown that people who wear helmets while driving are far less likely to suffer severe head injuries during an accident than people who don't wear them. Where do we draw the line?

I actually support laws that say that people under 16 must wear seatbelts/can't smoke/can't ride in truck beds/etc. because too many parents are idiots, and children can't be expected to make wise decisions for themselves at a young age, so I think they have to be somewhat protected, but as far as I'm concerned, adults should be able to do essentially whatever the hell the want, provided their actions don't affect--or have the potential to affect--others.


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Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 22, 2007 11:54 am

I've been pulled over once specifically for not wearing a seatbelt, and been pulled over another time for a passenger not wearing one. Both times were by the same racist POS cop. He used to hassle me all the time.
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Postby knapplc » Tue May 22, 2007 12:00 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
They can fix the law by repealing the law which says it is illegal to wear a seatbelt.


I assume that this is a typo but, if I am understanding you correctly, how does making it legal to not wear a seatbelt fix anything?? I know that it fixes things for a lot of people that want the government/police to stay out of this but how does it address the issue that I mentioned and you responded to??


No, it’s not a typo. See Art’s comments about government involvement for why it isn’t, because I pretty much agree with him 100%. It is NOT the government’s job to be my parent, and with these ridiculous laws they are becoming Mommy And Daddy more and more.

As for the insurance thing, it simply isn’t something the government should be involved in anyway. Further, why are my $100K medical bills your issue? If you have insurance fine, that’s what insurance is for. If you don’t then I’m sorry, but it’s not my problem. Everyone has the opportunity to have a job that provides insurance, and if they don’t then they should go get one that does. If insurance companies are passing the expenses on to their customers, that’s a business practice that the government shouldn’t be involved in anyway.
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Postby knapplc » Tue May 22, 2007 12:02 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:There are few people I know that like police officers. And I think that these mommying laws are a big reason as to why.

If the police just protected and served, I think they'd get a lot more community support. But when they're protecting us from ourselves (seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, pot, sexual activity, etc) people begin to feel like criminals.

These laws need to go.


Agreed with everything you say here, except the thing about not liking cops. There are few people I know who don't like cops. Perhaps this is more of a regional thing - I know the police behave differently in different parts of the country. I think here in Nebraska we're lucky enough to have pretty decent police forces in our towns, and for the most part those bullying cops don't exist here.

I don't fault the rank-and-file officers for these stupid traffic stops, either. They're being made to do these things by their superiors. Sure, some of them are smarmy and smug about it, but those are individuals and not indicative of the force as a whole.

At least that's been my experience.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 22, 2007 12:18 pm

knapplc wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
They can fix the law by repealing the law which says it is illegal to wear a seatbelt.


I assume that this is a typo but, if I am understanding you correctly, how does making it legal to not wear a seatbelt fix anything?? I know that it fixes things for a lot of people that want the government/police to stay out of this but how does it address the issue that I mentioned and you responded to??


No, it’s not a typo.


If it's not a typo, then I'm confused, too. What law says it is illegal to wear a seatbelt? I'm assuming you omitted a "not" in there.
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Postby knapplc » Tue May 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
They can fix the law by repealing the law which says it is illegal to wear a seatbelt.


I assume that this is a typo but, if I am understanding you correctly, how does making it legal to not wear a seatbelt fix anything?? I know that it fixes things for a lot of people that want the government/police to stay out of this but how does it address the issue that I mentioned and you responded to??


No, it’s not a typo.


If it's not a typo, then I'm confused, too. What law says it is illegal to wear a seatbelt? I'm assuming you omitted a "not" in there.

Whoops. Misread my own statement not once, but twice.


Yes, that's a typo.

It should say: "They can fix the law by repealing the law which says it is illegal NOT to wear a seatbelt."
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Postby ironman » Tue May 22, 2007 12:48 pm

Eh, I don't care about seatbelt laws. I always wear mine and I never feel like "the man" is keeping me down.

Now you wanna talk BS enforcement, let's talk red light and speed cameras. Talk about your Orwellian Cash Cows. :-t
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