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Postby OneLoveBoomer » Tue May 22, 2007 10:56 am

NYCBuckeye wrote:
Tavish wrote:Or the pitcher could just stand there and fail to deliver the ball within the 12 second time limit. Each infraction of exceeding the time limit is an automatic ball.


Interesting, I never knew that ... Amazing how Steve Trachsel never broke that rule!


Isn't the modified rule new this year?
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Postby Tavish » Tue May 22, 2007 10:58 am

OneLoveBoomer wrote:
NYCBuckeye wrote:
Tavish wrote:Or the pitcher could just stand there and fail to deliver the ball within the 12 second time limit. Each infraction of exceeding the time limit is an automatic ball.


Interesting, I never knew that ... Amazing how Steve Trachsel never broke that rule!


Isn't the modified rule new this year?


Right, it used to be 20. I don't think any pitcher has been called on it so far and I would be shocked if any pitcher ever was.
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Postby markj11 » Tue May 22, 2007 11:29 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
abc11435 wrote:Well technically that run is charged to the previous pitcher. But let me make it more difficult.

Q: How can a pitcher start a game and get an "L", without throwing a single pitch?


With my example, the run is charged to the previous pitcher, but the new one still gets the L.

Anyway, the only way I can think of if he starts a game is a whole crapload of balks


Both of these are wrong. In the first one, the previous pitcher would get the lose and in the second one someone would have to get on base before he could balk.
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Postby abc11435 » Tue May 22, 2007 11:49 am

markj11 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
abc11435 wrote:Well technically that run is charged to the previous pitcher. But let me make it more difficult.

Q: How can a pitcher start a game and get an "L", without throwing a single pitch?


With my example, the run is charged to the previous pitcher, but the new one still gets the L.

Anyway, the only way I can think of if he starts a game is a whole crapload of balks


Both of these are wrong. In the first one, the previous pitcher would get the lose and in the second one someone would have to get on base before he could balk.


That's what I thought too.

The 20 second thing is news to me. Well I did say there are more than one answer right? ;-)
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Postby abc11435 » Tue May 22, 2007 11:53 am

OneLoveBoomer wrote:
abc11435 wrote:
calc27 wrote:He would have to do something illegal like go his mouth 4 times which would walk the runner then there's an error on a pickoff attempt and the runner somehow scoress from 1st.

I'm sure the answer you're thinking of is much better, or at least I hope so.


Sorry to disappoint you, but you are right. :-)


Eh.

That's a no-no. He'd almost certainly get fined.

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.


How about this then? He goes to his mouth, gets a ball one. Argue with umpire, gets thrown out of game. New pitcher comes in. Gives up a run with same runner. The orignal pitcher who gave the ball is charged with the run and loss.
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Postby Tavish » Tue May 22, 2007 12:02 pm

abc11435 wrote:
OneLoveBoomer wrote:
abc11435 wrote:
calc27 wrote:He would have to do something illegal like go his mouth 4 times which would walk the runner then there's an error on a pickoff attempt and the runner somehow scoress from 1st.

I'm sure the answer you're thinking of is much better, or at least I hope so.


Sorry to disappoint you, but you are right. :-)


Eh.

That's a no-no. He'd almost certainly get fined.

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.


How about this then? He goes to his mouth, gets a ball one. Argue with umpire, gets thrown out of game. New pitcher comes in. Gives up a run with same runner. The orignal pitcher who gave the ball is charged with the run and loss.


No, that walk would go to the relief pitcher.
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Postby abc11435 » Tue May 22, 2007 12:06 pm

Tavish wrote:
abc11435 wrote:
OneLoveBoomer wrote:
abc11435 wrote:
calc27 wrote:He would have to do something illegal like go his mouth 4 times which would walk the runner then there's an error on a pickoff attempt and the runner somehow scoress from 1st.

I'm sure the answer you're thinking of is much better, or at least I hope so.


Sorry to disappoint you, but you are right. :-)


Eh.

That's a no-no. He'd almost certainly get fined.

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.


How about this then? He goes to his mouth, gets a ball one. Argue with umpire, gets thrown out of game. New pitcher comes in. Gives up a run with same runner. The orignal pitcher who gave the ball is charged with the run and loss.


No, that walk would go to the relief pitcher.


I'm almost sure that the pitcher who started the batter out will be responsible for the batter (hit or walk). Similar to a pitcher who hurts himself. I'm going to look this up now.
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Postby ordinarygenius » Tue May 22, 2007 12:09 pm

Nope. Tavish is right. MLB rule 10.16 says:

(h) A relief pitcher shall not be held accountable when the first batter to whom he pitches reaches first base on four called balls if such batter has a decided advantage in the ball and strike count when pitchers are changed.
(1) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, no strike,
2 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, no strike,
3 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, 2 strikes,
and the batter gets a base on balls, the official scorer shall charge that batter and the base on balls to the preceding pitcher, not to the relief pitcher.
(2) Any other action by such batter, such as reaching base on a hit, an error, a fielder's choice, a force-out, or being touched by a pitched ball, shall cause such a batter to be charged to the relief pitcher.
Rule 10.16(h) Comment: The provisions of Rule 10.16(h)(2) shall not be construed as affecting or conflicting with the provisions of Rule 10.16(g).
(3) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 1 strike,
1 ball, no strike,
no ball, 2 strikes,
no ball, 1 strike,
the official scorer shall charge that batter and the actions of that batter to the relief pitcher.
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Postby abc11435 » Tue May 22, 2007 12:12 pm

ordinarygenius wrote:Nope. Tavish is right. MLB rule 10.16 says:

(h) A relief pitcher shall not be held accountable when the first batter to whom he pitches reaches first base on four called balls if such batter has a decided advantage in the ball and strike count when pitchers are changed.
(1) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, no strike,
2 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, no strike,
3 balls, 1 strike,
3 balls, 2 strikes,
and the batter gets a base on balls, the official scorer shall charge that batter and the base on balls to the preceding pitcher, not to the relief pitcher.
(2) Any other action by such batter, such as reaching base on a hit, an error, a fielder's choice, a force-out, or being touched by a pitched ball, shall cause such a batter to be charged to the relief pitcher.
Rule 10.16(h) Comment: The provisions of Rule 10.16(h)(2) shall not be construed as affecting or conflicting with the provisions of Rule 10.16(g).
(3) If, when pitchers are changed, the count is
2 balls, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 2 strikes,
1 ball, 1 strike,
1 ball, no strike,
no ball, 2 strikes,
no ball, 1 strike,
the official scorer shall charge that batter and the actions of that batter to the relief pitcher.


Ok I stand corrected :-) He will need to have 2 balls in order for that to work (no pun intended).
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue May 22, 2007 6:55 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
abc11435 wrote:Well technically that run is charged to the previous pitcher. But let me make it more difficult.

Q: How can a pitcher start a game and get an "L", without throwing a single pitch?


With my example, the run is charged to the previous pitcher, but the new one still gets the L.

Anyway, the only way I can think of if he starts a game is a whole crapload of balks


The pitcher charged the run is the 1 that gets charged with the loss.

Tavish wrote:Or the pitcher could just stand there and fail to deliver the ball within the 12 second time limit. Each infraction of exceeding the time limit is an automatic ball.


Like the kid in the Bad News Bears that just stood there and tossed the ball in the air?? Not the same but similar.
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