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Your Top 10 Pitchers of All-Time

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Postby WhiteHot » Mon May 21, 2007 3:03 pm

Answer: Cole Hamels
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Postby Tavish » Mon May 21, 2007 3:20 pm

SteveJeltzPhanClub wrote:I think you guys are missing the true #1: Satchel Paige

My list:
#1 Satchel Paige
#2 Walter Johnson
#3 Roger Clemens
#4 Sandy Koufax
#5 Bob Gibson
#6 Lefty Grove
#7 Christy Mathewson
#8 Randy Johnson
#9 Cy Young
#10 Greg Maddux


I would be hard pressed to even call Satchel the greatest Negro League pitcher. If Paige is your #1 overall and Cyclone Joe doesn't make the top ten you are buying way to much into the post-career myth that Satch became.
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Postby gmq » Mon May 21, 2007 3:22 pm

Steve Carlton doesn't sneak in there?
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Re: Your Top 10 Pitchers of All-Time

Postby teddy ballgame » Mon May 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Tavish wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
acsguitar wrote:
Tavish wrote:
NYCBuckeye wrote:Really nice list ... I might squeeze in Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan, but still, nice work.



Uhhhg! :-D


I don't think Tavish likes Nolan! :-D


With good reason, too. Now there's by and far, the most overrated pitcher in the history of the game. :-°


Gibson isn't far behind.

I'd like to see an argument for this. I'm not saying he is or isn't overrated, don't know all too much about him other than the record ERA season but I thought your argument against Ryan was pretty solid so I'd be interested in the argument vs. Gibson if you ever have the time (or if you could point me to where you made it before).
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Re: Your Top 10 Pitchers of All-Time

Postby Tavish » Mon May 21, 2007 3:51 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
Tavish wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:With good reason, too. Now there's by and far, the most overrated pitcher in the history of the game. :-°


Gibson isn't far behind.

I'd like to see an argument for this. I'm not saying he is or isn't overrated, don't know all too much about him other than the record ERA season but I thought your argument against Ryan was pretty solid so I'd be interested in the argument vs. Gibson if you ever have the time (or if you could point me to where you made it before).


Where would you rank Gibson among the greatest pitchers in the history of the game? Just for some comparisons on how some others have voted in the past:

The fan voting in 1999 for the All-Century team had him 5th (Nolan was 1st).

Tom Seaver in his book in 1994 had Gibson 8th without any current pitcher or himself listed (Nolan was 10th).

The Hardball Times did a statistical ranking of pitchers and had Gibson 14th (Nolan 30th).

The Sporting News in 1998 had Gibson 9th with no current pitcher ahead of him (Ryan was 13th).

Gibson was great in the postseason and great in 1968 and 1969. He was very good in most his other seasons. He was a great pitcher overall but certainly not in the same realm as most of the others in the top 10. I have always had him somewhere in the 12-15 range.

8 All-Star Games, 1 MVP, 2 Cy Youngs, 1 ERA title, 1 Win Title, 1 K Title, 2 ERA+ Titles, .
The only categories he makes the top 30 in for his career is K's, BB, and Shutouts (none in the top 10).

His Top 10 most comparable have no players that will make many top 10 lists although almost all are HoFers.
1. Jim Palmer (901) *
2. Jack Morris (885)
3. Amos Rusie (880) *
4. Luis Tiant (876)
5. Bob Feller (871) *
6. Vic Willis (867) *
7. Jim Bunning (861) *
8. Don Drysdale (846) *
9. George Mullin (845)
10. Juan Marichal (844) *
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Postby thedude » Mon May 21, 2007 7:11 pm

1. Lefty Grove
2. Walter Johnson
3. Roger Clemens
4. Pedro Martinez
5. Cy Young
6. Grover Cleveland Alexander
7. Tom Seaver
8. Christy Mathewson
9. Greg Maddux
10. Carl Hubbell
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Postby costag » Mon May 21, 2007 9:24 pm

It's tough to add those guys from the early years because most of us are too young to remember or haven't seen much footage of them. Also, imagine what some of the current pitchers would have done if they started 40-50 games a year with 300+ innings like in the old days. Their careers might be shorter but imagine what kind of single season stats Santana or Clemens would have put up! We most definetely would have seen a 30 game winner or two and maybe a 400k season.

My top ten in no particular order is:

1 Steve Carlton
2 Nolan Ryan
3 Bob Gibson
4 Roger Clemens
5 Tom Seaver
6 Randy Johnson
7 Johann Santana
8 Pedro Martinez
9 Greg Maddux
10 Jim Palmer
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Postby RoxSox8 » Tue May 22, 2007 12:25 am

Walter Johnson (Wins, SO's, Workhorse)
Bob Feller (Filthy Stuff)
Roger Clemens (Legs of steel)
Sandy Koufax (See Feller)
Tom Seaver (Complete package)
Bob Gibson (They lowered the mound after his season in 68')
Greg Maddux (Intelligence, Control and Movement)
Nolan Ryan (SO's, Longevity, Power Pitcher until the end)
Cy Young (Named an award after him)
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Postby HOOTIE » Thu May 24, 2007 12:25 am

How anyone can put Ryan in a top 20 list is baffling.

Tavish, why no love for RJ?
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Postby Tavish » Thu May 24, 2007 1:05 pm

HOOTIE wrote:How anyone can put Ryan in a top 20 list is baffling.

Tavish, why no love for RJ?


RJ had a four year peak as good as anyone not named Walter Johnson or Pedro Martinez and I am constantly going back and forth between him and Spahn as the #2 Lefty. The reason I go with Spahn was longevity and consistency. RJ really wasn't all that great until he was 29 and then had the two injury seasons to bookend the prime of his career.
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