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George Orwell's prediction has come true in North Korea

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George Orwell's prediction has come true in North Korea

Postby sportsaddict » Sun May 20, 2007 1:39 am

Posted this on the Football side too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTNvaZu30UQ

Watch this first part of this National Geographic video here, and then go on to Part 2 (which is provided in the description).

Absolutely chilling. For those of you that have read 1984 (which is probably almost everyone here), this video is so similar to what Orwell talks about it's terrifying. All these people in North Korea worship "their great leader," as they call Kim Jong Il, and they have been completely brainwashed to think that he can do no wrong. He is literally treated the exact same as Big Brother was in the book- people have pictures of him on their wall, they bow down to him, they act as if he is a god... the only difference is their lives aren't monitored in North Korea, but other than that, Kim Jong Il has complete control over everyone. If you do anything that they would consider criticizing the government in North Korea, you and your entire extended family is sent to a concentration camp where you are not even close to being treated as a human.

Really interesting and chilling video, very disturbing as well.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sun May 20, 2007 4:17 am

The thing that needs to happen is for an rather influential leader under him that can influence him towards developing a decent economy, an economy needs to develop before anything positive can happen, and it's not happening right now. Or if he's close minded, we might have to wait for him to die and hope his successor(Kim Jung Il Jr. doesn he have kid?) can do something radical and develop a decent economy. A revolution is HIGHLY unlikely as the uneducated(or brainwashed, whatever you want to call them) greatly outnumber the intellectuals that knows better(and it's not like citizens have guns or elections or anything). I also think foreign intervention like what we are doing in Iraq would be a horrible idea as nations like this tend to be VERY united, and even though it would still crumble easily against the US Army force, we've seen what determined natives can do to intruders, no matter the motif(Iraq again)

This is pretty much what happened in China(probably worse) around the cultural revolution. And Deng stepped up around the early 80 with some radical economic ideas that worked. And because of him, China is where it is at today. Mao is a very good military man and leader in general, but he wasn't terribly right on the economical end, had we go down his path economically, I bet you won't be buying a whole lot of Made in China merchandises in Wal-Mart and China in general wouldn't be too prosperous.

Kim has pretty much taken over since 1994 when his father died. And the 90s is pretty much a period of struggle for them, the USSR is gone and thus they've lost all support from the former communist giants. Also, their relationship with China went through a cold period in the 90s and the aid from China was at least reduced a bit I have to believe. There has been 2 huge flood during the 90s as well that didn't help the matter. Kim believes in self governing and self producing I think, which means little to no trading with other countries. You produce what you need would be the moto(sorta). And because of that they were pretty much closed out to the outside world. But he has opened up a bit recently concerning trades and that is a positive sign.

I can't speak for him but If I'm in his position, I'd be greatly threatened by the American's bullying way, say what you want about the recent war, but the fact is that if America wants to invade a country, it's going to do so, regardless of what the international community thinks about it. And as the Communist half of a country that was divided by the cold war, there's reason to think that Americans would try to do something to unite the whole of Korea(see Vietnamese war, see America's stance on Taiwan). And that's not good if I'm the leader of N.Korea. And to his credit, he thought up a reasonable and not impossible plan that would largely prevent that: the nuclear weapon. Sure, a lot of people probably starved because of it, but you have to admit Kim's in a safer place now with the nuclear weapon.

Well, that was a whole bunch of nothing. Personally I think China's economic boom was either 1)a miracle or 2)being at the right place at the right time and can't really be duplicated with North Korea. But you never know, maybe now that Kim Jung-Il feels safer about his position, he'll start thinking about building an economical system, I wouldn't underestimate the man, no matter how small or ugly you think he is ;-) The guy is a smart dude.

Either way, I'm just glad China is where it is at in my life time and it's getting better every year. ;-D

edit: Surely some of these guys that looks brainwashed knows better and are only acting this way to protect themselves. But at this point, you really can tell them apart from the genuinely brainwashed.
Last edited by PlayingWithFire on Sun May 20, 2007 4:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sun May 20, 2007 4:18 am

and oh, I know people who traveled there for some reason, and they say everybody was so ordinary and Coka Cola is a luxury over there.
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Postby CheeseBeger » Sun May 20, 2007 1:21 pm

Yeah it looks like Kim Jong-Il has also read 1984.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sun May 20, 2007 2:01 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:And as the Communist half of a country that was divided by the cold war, there's reason to think that Americans would try to do something to unite the whole of Korea(see Vietnamese war, see America's stance on Taiwan). .


Or is it the Communist the 20% of the PRK that runs a country that is something like 1/3 of Korea as a whole? :-?


PlayingWithFire wrote:Well, that was a whole bunch of nothing. Personally I think China's economic boom was either 1)a miracle or 2)being at the right place at the right time and can't really be duplicated with North Korea.


I am kind of inclined to disagree w/ this as I don't believe in miracles as far as economics is concerned (although I did jump up and down after DLee's tater yesterday....).

I think (and have read in Niall Fergusson's Colossus...) that China has accumulated lots of capital by 1) not having consumer goods widely available to a large proportion of the population 2) selling tons of consumer goods to the USA and reinvesting the saved capital (which also is reinforced by what could be described as a cultural tendency towards saving and personal fiscal conservatism...) at a time when much of the 'first world' is going nutso blowing dough on iPods, Hummers and Alfonso Soriano.
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Postby Callahan » Sun May 20, 2007 2:49 pm

AcidRock23 wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:And as the Communist half of a country that was divided by the cold war, there's reason to think that Americans would try to do something to unite the whole of Korea(see Vietnamese war, see America's stance on Taiwan). .


Or is it the Communist the 20% of the PRK that runs a country that is something like 1/3 of Korea as a whole? :-?


PlayingWithFire wrote:Well, that was a whole bunch of nothing. Personally I think China's economic boom was either 1)a miracle or 2)being at the right place at the right time and can't really be duplicated with North Korea.


I am kind of inclined to disagree w/ this as I don't believe in miracles as far as economics is concerned (although I did jump up and down after DLee's tater yesterday....).

I think (and have read in Niall Fergusson's Colossus...) that China has accumulated lots of capital by 1) not having consumer goods widely available to a large proportion of the population 2) selling tons of consumer goods to the USA and reinvesting the saved capital (which also is reinforced by what could be described as a cultural tendency towards saving and personal fiscal conservatism...) at a time when much of the 'first world' is going nutso blowing dough on iPods, Hummers and Alfonso Soriano.


I think you hit the nail right on the head, both in terms of suppression of the "consumerist ethic," and in terms of their philosophy toward savings and reinvestment. And most important of all, they PRODUCE things. Hard industry is vital, and China has the manufacturing and an R&D sector that's tied to real-world production; no reason that kind of situation can't happen in North Korea (except for the whole crazy-dictator-thing).
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Postby Coppermine » Sun May 20, 2007 5:07 pm

CheeseBeger wrote:Yeah it looks like Kim Jong-Il has also read 1984.


Unfortunately, no one else in the country is allowed to read anything other than government propaganda. Which is ironic since North Korea has some of the world's largest libraries.

If anyone has Google Earth, go cruise around North Korea for a while. It's positively chilling. Huge cities, ten-lane highways and not a single vehicle.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sun May 20, 2007 6:32 pm

Callahan wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:And as the Communist half of a country that was divided by the cold war, there's reason to think that Americans would try to do something to unite the whole of Korea(see Vietnamese war, see America's stance on Taiwan). .


Or is it the Communist the 20% of the PRK that runs a country that is something like 1/3 of Korea as a whole? :-?


PlayingWithFire wrote:Well, that was a whole bunch of nothing. Personally I think China's economic boom was either 1)a miracle or 2)being at the right place at the right time and can't really be duplicated with North Korea.


I am kind of inclined to disagree w/ this as I don't believe in miracles as far as economics is concerned (although I did jump up and down after DLee's tater yesterday....).

I think (and have read in Niall Fergusson's Colossus...) that China has accumulated lots of capital by 1) not having consumer goods widely available to a large proportion of the population 2) selling tons of consumer goods to the USA and reinvesting the saved capital (which also is reinforced by what could be described as a cultural tendency towards saving and personal fiscal conservatism...) at a time when much of the 'first world' is going nutso blowing dough on iPods, Hummers and Alfonso Soriano.


I think you hit the nail right on the head, both in terms of suppression of the "consumerist ethic," and in terms of their philosophy toward savings and reinvestment. And most important of all, they PRODUCE things. Hard industry is vital, and China has the manufacturing and an R&D sector that's tied to real-world production; no reason that kind of situation can't happen in North Korea (except for the whole crazy-dictator-thing).


The thing is can they produce the same quality of stuff...cheaper. And how long will it take them to setup a system to efficiently getting demand and supplying them.
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