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Get ready for $4 gasoline

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Postby RugbyD » Mon May 07, 2007 4:49 pm

knapplc wrote:I advocate producing cars with MUCH greater fuel economy than are currently available on the market, and I advocate doing that NOW. We have the intelligence and resources, just not the motivation.

the laws of thermodynamics, combined with the prohibitive cost of electric and fuel cell technology make this a pipe dream if you're looking for a material impact on comsumption, unless you are OK with driving a papier mache deathtrap.

Drought impact is definitely not what it used to be, but it is still a reality. Crop disease is another risk, though we've thankfully reduced that some with GMO crops. There is simply too little arable land to make corn-based solutions a realistic substitute given risks and ripple effects. Other plant life shows some promise, but corn is crap.
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Postby Madison » Mon May 07, 2007 4:54 pm

bleach168 wrote:Oil companies should be thankful our government doesn't tax their product more like foreign countries.


19% of what we pay at the pump is taxes according to the Fort Worth Star Telegram Sunday Edition (yesterday's paper). Isn't that significantly more than enough in taxes 8-o ? Roughly 60 cents per gallon, times at least 10 gallons, which would be at least $6 every single time you fill up a small car? 8-o

Tax it even more? I say tax it less. 8-o
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Postby RugbyD » Mon May 07, 2007 4:56 pm

bleach168 wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
bleach168 wrote:Oil companies should be thankful our government doesn't tax their product more like foreign countries.

What's there to be thankful for? That a country founded on freedom and the rule of law operates according to freedom and the rule lof law (notwithstanding the commieish ramblings about windfall profit taxes)? That reminds me of the Chris Rock bit about people bragging about taking care of their kids. The govt is supposed to mind their own business and protect priavte property rights and shouldn't be thanked for it.


That's a generalized argument against any form of taxes. You want low taxes, fine. But how come it's only low for oil companies and not for the rest of us? There's the imbalance they should be thankful for.

I'm againt corporate welfare more than most and I'm the first in line to torch 99% of the tax code. Effective tax rates can be a complex matter given alone the intricacies of accounting. Other countries tend to be abusive towards oil companies relative the the rest of the world and that is wrong. Oil companies shoulnd't be thankful that the US doesn't go out its way to rape them.
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Postby bleach168 » Mon May 07, 2007 5:20 pm

Madison wrote:
bleach168 wrote:Oil companies should be thankful our government doesn't tax their product more like foreign countries.


19% of what we pay at the pump is taxes according to the Fort Worth Star Telegram Sunday Edition (yesterday's paper). Isn't that significantly more than enough in taxes 8-o ? Roughly 60 cents per gallon, times at least 10 gallons, which would be at least $6 every single time you fill up a small car? 8-o

Tax it even more? I say tax it less. 8-o


But, Mad. That extra $6 you spend today will go into r&d for alternative fuels. It will help build new mass transit systems. It will free us from the middle east.

Think of that $6 as an investment in America's future.

We have been lucky so far in that gas prices has been going up at a steady pace. If there was a disaster somewhere and prices jumped to $7-8 overnight, our economy would collaspe as we have nothing to fall back on.
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Postby RugbyD » Mon May 07, 2007 5:32 pm

bleach168 wrote:But, Mad. That extra $6 you spend today will go into r&d for alternative fuels.

since it is non-essential, let people who want to use it pay for it

It will help build new mass transit systems.

let the users of it pay for it

It will free us from the middle east.

trade is a good thing, dependence should be diverse, not exclusive

Think of that $6 as an investment in America's future.

an investment of my own $6 in me is much more useful and productive than giving it to some government stooge to allocate for political benefit.

We have been lucky so far in that gas prices has been going up at a steady pace. If there was a disaster somewhere and prices jumped to $7-8 overnight, our economy would collaspe as we have nothing to fall back on.

we've come out of recession before and i can't think of anything that would cause a doubling or tripling of gas prices overnight and for a prolonged period of time aside from WW3, in which case we're screwed and will be cutting back on everything anyways.
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Postby bleach168 » Mon May 07, 2007 5:57 pm

RugbyD wrote:
bleach168 wrote:But, Mad. That extra $6 you spend today will go into r&d for alternative fuels.

since it is non-essential, let people who want to use it pay for it

It will help build new mass transit systems.

let the users of it pay for it

It will free us from the middle east.

trade is a good thing, dependence should be diverse, not exclusive

Think of that $6 as an investment in America's future.

an investment of my own $6 in me is much more useful and productive than giving it to some government stooge to allocate for political benefit.

We have been lucky so far in that gas prices has been going up at a steady pace. If there was a disaster somewhere and prices jumped to $7-8 overnight, our economy would collaspe as we have nothing to fall back on.

we've come out of recession before and i can't think of anything that would cause a doubling or tripling of gas prices overnight and for a prolonged period of time aside from WW3, in which case we're screwed and will be cutting back on everything anyways.


Things are rosy now and the measures I've proposed sound unnecessary but,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

A loss of 4% of oil production resulted in a 250% increase in crude oil prices. The U.S. auto industry never fully recovered.

We could just sit in our SUVs and hope it never happens again or we can prepare for the next time it happens.
Last edited by bleach168 on Mon May 07, 2007 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Madison » Mon May 07, 2007 5:57 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Madison wrote:
bleach168 wrote:Oil companies should be thankful our government doesn't tax their product more like foreign countries.


19% of what we pay at the pump is taxes according to the Fort Worth Star Telegram Sunday Edition (yesterday's paper). Isn't that significantly more than enough in taxes 8-o ? Roughly 60 cents per gallon, times at least 10 gallons, which would be at least $6 every single time you fill up a small car? 8-o

Tax it even more? I say tax it less. 8-o


But, Mad. That extra $6 you spend today will go into r&d for alternative fuels. It will help build new mass transit systems. It will free us from the middle east.

Think of that $6 as an investment in America's future.

We have been lucky so far in that gas prices has been going up at a steady pace. If there was a disaster somewhere and prices jumped to $7-8 overnight, our economy would collaspe as we have nothing to fall back on.


Needless to say that with the way government wastes money, I have zero desire to pay that percentage, and definitely can't bank on them doing anything remotely productive with the money. Give me the $6 per tank back and I'll do more with it than the govenment as it would go back into the economy, which is better for the future of America than giving it to the government to flush down the toilet.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Postby Madison » Mon May 07, 2007 6:01 pm

bleach168 wrote:
RugbyD wrote:
bleach168 wrote:But, Mad. That extra $6 you spend today will go into r&d for alternative fuels.

since it is non-essential, let people who want to use it pay for it

It will help build new mass transit systems.

let the users of it pay for it

It will free us from the middle east.

trade is a good thing, dependence should be diverse, not exclusive

Think of that $6 as an investment in America's future.

an investment of my own $6 in me is much more useful and productive than giving it to some government stooge to allocate for political benefit.

We have been lucky so far in that gas prices has been going up at a steady pace. If there was a disaster somewhere and prices jumped to $7-8 overnight, our economy would collaspe as we have nothing to fall back on.

we've come out of recession before and i can't think of anything that would cause a doubling or tripling of gas prices overnight and for a prolonged period of time aside from WW3, in which case we're screwed and will be cutting back on everything anyways.


Things are rosy now and the measures I've proposed sound unnecessary but,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

A loss of 4% of oil production resulted in a 250% increase in crude oil prices. The U.S. auto industry never fully recovered.

We could just sit in our SUVs and hope it never happens again or we can prepare for the next time it happens.


Did you read that? It rose due to "panic" which is the same thing that's going on right now. There's no need for prices to be this high.

Also:

the Carter administration instituted price controls.


Wouldn't it be nice to see that now? A fixed price? Sure would make life easier for a lot of people. The government would need the people to stand up as one united front to make that happen though, but I'm not sure how to do that.... ;-7 ;-)
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
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Postby RugbyD » Mon May 07, 2007 6:06 pm

Madison wrote:
the Carter administration instituted price controls.


Wouldn't it be nice to see that now? A fixed price? Sure would make life easier for a lot of people. The government would need the people to stand up as one united front to make that happen though, but I'm not sure how to do that.... ;-7 ;-)

The more I read your posts in this thread, the more I think you're playing a prank on us to liven up what has been a alckluster May in GT. Economic history tends to prove out, as it did in the late 70s, that price controls only succeed in creating artificial shortages. You don't seem like the type to have missed out on this.
Last edited by RugbyD on Mon May 07, 2007 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby flloyd » Mon May 07, 2007 6:07 pm

Madison - Seriously, if you think government price fixing is a good thing I seriously suggest that you think of moving to Cuba or Venezuela where they have instituted this practice. I would have said USSR but they learned a long time ago that that doesn't work.
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