It's time to change the Win rule for pitchers! - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

It's time to change the Win rule for pitchers!

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby bigh0rt » Mon May 07, 2007 12:49 am

wrveres wrote:This is why they have the stat "Quality Start" ...


My thoughts as well.
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24816
(Past Year: 361)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Postby WickedSmaat » Mon May 07, 2007 12:53 am

NZF wrote:That's not just the way it is. There is a proviso in the rules to give it to the most deserving but they never do it. They need to start using this provision.


I remember reading the rules a couple weeks ago, but this only applies to relief pitchers and it only applies in a situation where the starting pitcher lasted less than 5 full innings with 6 or more on defense(or 4 in 5 inn, covered under 10.17(b)):

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/of ... rer_10.jsp

10.17 Winning And Losing Pitcher
(a) The official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, unless
(1) such pitcher is a starting pitcher and Rule 10.17(b) applies; or
(2) Rule 10.17(c) applies.
Rule 10.17(a) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning pitcher is concerned. Once the opposing team assumes the lead, all pitchers who have pitched up to that point and have been replaced are excluded from being credited with the victory. If the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher.
(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.
Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.
(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.
Rule 10.17(c) Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher). Rule 10.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among several succeeding relief pitchers.
Last edited by WickedSmaat on Mon May 07, 2007 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
WickedSmaat
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Graphics ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 2068
Joined: 2 Oct 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Shooting for par

Postby noseeum » Mon May 07, 2007 12:55 am

Yeah, change your league rules to QS if you don't like Wins. A win is still a win. You can't give a win to a guy when the team is losing after he leaves the game.

That makes no sense at all. Doesn't matter if he left with the lead. If the lead was lost by some other guy, the win is gone. Don't change the stat to fit your desire. Use a different stat.
noseeum
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1697
Joined: 1 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby George_Foreman » Mon May 07, 2007 1:06 am

Chad Paronto came in to the game tonight in the 6th with 2 outs and Raphael Furcal on 1st. His first pitch was a pitchout, resulting in Salty throwing out Furcal in his attempt to steal 2nd. Paronto was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom half of the inning as Atlanta mounted a rally to come back and win the game.

So Paronto got the win, and his only pitch was a pitchout.

Talk about a broken stat.

(On another note, would-be basestealers (including speedsters Raphael Furcal and Juan Pierre) are now 0-3 against Saltalamacchia. Man, I'm getting excited about this kid!)
"I don't buy everything I read,
I havn't even read everything I've bought"

"I find it more comforting to believe that this [life] isn't simply a test."
George_Foreman
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4351
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: at Morimoto's, eating $50 worth of sushi

Postby NZF » Mon May 07, 2007 1:29 am

noseeum wrote:Yeah, change your league rules to QS if you don't like Wins. A win is still a win. You can't give a win to a guy when the team is losing after he leaves the game.

That makes no sense at all. Doesn't matter if he left with the lead. If the lead was lost by some other guy, the win is gone. Don't change the stat to fit your desire. Use a different stat.


:-?
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby Half Massed » Mon May 07, 2007 1:30 am

George_Foreman wrote:Chad Paronto came in to the game tonight in the 6th with 2 outs and Raphael Furcal on 1st. His first pitch was a pitchout, resulting in Salty throwing out Furcal in his attempt to steal 2nd. Paronto was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom half of the inning as Atlanta mounted a rally to come back and win the game.

So Paronto got the win, and his only pitch was a pitchout.

Talk about a broken stat.

(On another note, would-be basestealers (including speedsters Raphael Furcal and Juan Pierre) are now 0-3 against Saltalamacchia. Man, I'm getting excited about this kid!)


I'm pretty sure there have been instances of a guy coming into pitch with two outs and a man on first and picking him off before he throws a pitch to get the win.
Image
Half Massed
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 4084
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Busting ghosts

Postby daullaz » Mon May 07, 2007 1:35 am

George_Foreman wrote:Chad Paronto came in to the game tonight in the 6th with 2 outs and Raphael Furcal on 1st. His first pitch was a pitchout, resulting in Salty throwing out Furcal in his attempt to steal 2nd. Paronto was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom half of the inning as Atlanta mounted a rally to come back and win the game.

So Paronto got the win, and his only pitch was a pitchout.

Talk about a broken stat.

(On another note, would-be basestealers (including speedsters Raphael Furcal and Juan Pierre) are now 0-3 against Saltalamacchia. Man, I'm getting excited about this kid!)


I say give the win to Salty!
Image
daullaz
Head Scribe
Head Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4884
(Past Year: 61)
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Babel

Postby NZF » Mon May 07, 2007 1:48 am

Half Massed wrote:
George_Foreman wrote:Chad Paronto came in to the game tonight in the 6th with 2 outs and Raphael Furcal on 1st. His first pitch was a pitchout, resulting in Salty throwing out Furcal in his attempt to steal 2nd. Paronto was lifted for a pinch hitter in the bottom half of the inning as Atlanta mounted a rally to come back and win the game.

So Paronto got the win, and his only pitch was a pitchout.

Talk about a broken stat.

(On another note, would-be basestealers (including speedsters Raphael Furcal and Juan Pierre) are now 0-3 against Saltalamacchia. Man, I'm getting excited about this kid!)


I'm pretty sure there have been instances of a guy coming into pitch with two outs and a man on first and picking him off before he throws a pitch to get the win.


Of course there has and isn't it ridiculous. Change the rules to give it to the most deserving pitcher on the winning team to be decided by the official scorer.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby Madison » Tue May 08, 2007 10:27 pm

Surprised this didn't get bumped. Lidge's line tonight:

1/3rd of an inning, K, WIN! :*)
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Postby NZF » Tue May 08, 2007 11:26 pm

I've got no problem with Lidge getting the win, he was just as deserving as any other Astros pitcher. My gripe is when a reliever pitches badly, gives the lead away and then happens to be the recipient of a vultured win thanks to his teams offense exploding in the right inning. Give it to the starting pitcher if he's gone at least 5 and has left with the lead.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: joiingds and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Sep. 1
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Philadelphia at Atlanta
(1:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Boston at Tampa Bay
(1:10 pm)
indoors
Minnesota at Baltimore
(1:35 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(2:15 pm)
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(4:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(4:05 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(4:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(4:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(8:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact