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roger clemens signing and what it means for hughes future

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Postby Papelbon Fire » Mon May 07, 2007 12:26 pm

It was already speculated on ESPN that Hughes will go back down to AAA S/WB Yankees and that the rotation will be: Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, Clemens, Igawa. If you think about it in reasonable terms, they just paid all this money ($28 mil) for Clemens and $20 mil to bring Igawa over, there is no way they are gonna send Igawa to the pen when they have these two highly paid starters. And then Hughes in the picture, with these two starters, they aren't going to risk the future anymore than they have already by placing someone like Igawa in the pen and Hughes in the 5th rotation spot. I say we'll see Hughes next year in the rotation, maybe another start this year.
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Postby Cyclone177 » Mon May 07, 2007 12:40 pm

I see your point on the money spent on Igawa. But, money is obviously no object when it comes to wins. Igawa has been pretty sad when starting this year. The only rotation I have seen ESPN put up, included Hughes and excluded Igawa, and this was just last night. Not sure where you saw that Igawa was getting the 5th spot, but I really doubt they are going to let him get shelled all year, while studly Hughes dominates in the minors.
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Postby skibz00 » Mon May 07, 2007 12:44 pm

they already showed yesterday on yes that hughes will be back in the rotation when he gets back... he had a no hitter going until he got hurt... igawa already got moved to the bullpen once then got ripped when he had to start again due to injury he will be back in that pen as soon as the yanks can do it... and as for the money this is the yanks we are talking about when is money ever an issue.. u heard clemens anything short of a championship is a failure..
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Postby B-Chad » Mon May 07, 2007 1:05 pm

Bud Smith once through a no-hitter... actually completed a no-hitter... last time I checked throwing a no-hitter... or having one when you leave the game does not guarantee success. That said, Phil Hughes should be very good. It's important to remember he is a rookie, and pitching in the AL-East, so I'd recommend at least slightly tempering expectations. He should get run support and win ball games, he should post a good ERA... I'd hold off on expecting great... and the K totals should be good. Keep in mind that Justin Verlander is the exception as a rookie pitcher, not the rule. Also, Wang is very good... but to call him dominant is pretty laughable. He was second in Cy Young voting because of victories. He posted a very good ERA, but keep in mind that he's a sinker ball pitcher who doesn't strike hitters out. What that means is that Wang will always be reliant on his defense to make plays behind him and keep his ERA down. The difference between a very good pitcher and a dominant pitcher is that a very good pitcher will post good games most of the time, while still relying on their team for run support and fielding. A dominant pitcher has the ability to go out there and leave less to chance by striking out a high number of hitters while being able to go deep into games (Santana, Peavy, Hamels, even Halladay, though he isn't a huge strikeout guy, he is capable of ringing hitters up when he has to). As far as all the speculation about where Hughes will be... I'd imagine likely on the big squad. That said, it's important to remember he's out for a while, and if someone shows they are a capable fifth, namely Igawa, it should come as no surprise if they opt to let Hughes season a little more in AAA and then pull him back up closer to the end of the season for the stretch run.
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Postby abc11435 » Mon May 07, 2007 1:17 pm

"A dominant pitcher has the ability to go out there and leave less to chance by striking out a high number of hitters while being able to go deep into games "

That is just your opinion. Nowhere have I read domination = strikeout. In my books, dominant pitcher = one who can get outs, flyballs, groundballs, strikeout. If a guy can pitch a perfect game w/o one single strikeout, that is dominating enough for me.
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Postby Papelbon Fire » Mon May 07, 2007 1:29 pm

Well if I'm wrong, it still doesn't make sense to me. Igawa hasn't been all that good, but it's only May! I mean Clemens will add some wins, but why would you bring Hughes up already for good and risk losing him in the future. Igawa is someone that might not even be with the Yankees for his whole current contract. As we all know, Steinbrenner doesn't care about dumping players if they aren't performing. I guess I'm just weary of his future. As much as I hate the Yankees, I'd hate to see a talented young pitcher such as Hughes end up back on the DL again. But I guess we'll see what happens when he comes off. As of now it wouldn't be a surprise to me in either case: staying up or goin down
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Postby Insanity » Mon May 07, 2007 1:30 pm

What makes wang not dominating:

Opponents hit .277 off of him last year. Yes, he had a sub 4.00 ERA, but when you are only striking out a rate of 3K/9 and a BB/K of nearly 1:1 that is not even close to dominating.

He is effective. Big Difference. Unless you want to call Jamie Moyer dominating.
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Postby B-Chad » Mon May 07, 2007 1:43 pm

What makes Wang not dominating is that as long as you throw pitches that batters putting in play, it is up to your fielders to take care of business. I'll give you an example. Here is a one season line from another sinker ball pitcher who k's about one hitter every 2 innings... 14 wins 9 losses 215.2 innings 116 k's 3.38 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP with a .255 BAA. Now lets look at his follow up season... 15 wins 15 losses 210.2 innings 119 K's 4.49 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP with a BAA of .265... Finally, lets look at his career numbers 57 wins 55 losses 911 innings 489 K's 4.46 ERA and a 1.40 WHIP with a .279 BAA... The players stats I just posted are Jake Westbrook. He is a perfect example of the life of a sinker baller who doesn't strike out hitters. Wang is not dominant. Wang is very good and should be a big time innings eater. That said his ERA, WHIP and BAA as well as like everyone, his win totals, are reliant on his TEAM. A dominant pitcher is able to minimize his reliance on his team. Wang is good, solid, not dominant.
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Postby Bogey9906 » Mon May 07, 2007 1:58 pm

Papelbon Fire wrote:but why would you bring Hughes up already for good and risk losing him in the future.


Hughes will be pitching again somewhere in several weeks, and is just as susceptible to injury in AAA as he is up with the Yankees. The only question is whether he could help the Yankees win this year. Based on his two starts, I'd be shocked if they didn't at least bring him up for a few starts when he's ready. Unless Igawa starts throwing lights-out, I think Hughes will be up for good after an extended rehab.
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Postby mrbo » Mon May 07, 2007 5:30 pm

This seemed to be the most appropriate place:

Kei Igawa-S-Yankees May. 7 - 5:20 pm et

Yankees optioned LHP Kei Igawa to Single-A Tampa.
The Roger Clemens signing hasn't stopped the Yankees from changing the plans around on a daily basis. Now Darrell Rasner is going to remain the rotation. Igawa was effective in three of his six appearances, but he was bad enough in the other three to result in a 7.63 ERA. The Yankees will have to give him another chance sooner or later, and he may be a perfectly adequate fourth or fifth starter when it happens. Still, spending $46 million to get him was never a good idea.

LINK
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