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Now That The Josh Hamilton Band Wagon Is Starting To End ...

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Postby alchemy » Wed May 02, 2007 11:43 pm

thedude wrote:
alchemy wrote:
rainman23 wrote:
alchemy wrote:As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

If only they had your keen insight into their true motivations.


Come on, guys and gals, let's not be so naive.


Ryan Freel is white, so how does race even play into the equation?


Bit more of an all-american story in Josh Hamilton than Ryan Freel, wouldn't you agree?
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Postby KTM » Wed May 02, 2007 11:49 pm

Considering Hamilton was still suspended by the league this time last year and living in a broom closet to come in to the bigs and even get a hit is impressive. Should he start every day? Probably not. But you need supreme talent to do what he has done.

Not sure what the Rule 5 'rules' are but it would be nice if the Reds could work a $ deal with the Rays so they would have the flexibility to send him down if need be.

Or they could make him a pitcher - he had a 99mph fastball back in the day...
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Postby alchemy » Wed May 02, 2007 11:52 pm

KTM wrote:Considering Hamilton was still suspended by the league this time last year and living in a broom closet to come in to the bigs and even get a hit is impressive. Should he start every day? Probably not. But you need supreme talent to do what he has done.

Not sure what the Rule 5 'rules' are but it would be nice if the Reds could work a $ deal with the Rays so they would have the flexibility to send him down if need be.

Or they could make him a pitcher - he had a 99mph fastball back in the day...


^^ This I agree with.

Hey, if they do make him a pitcher, he could be Jeff Allison.
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Postby thedude » Wed May 02, 2007 11:53 pm

alchemy wrote:
thedude wrote:
alchemy wrote:
rainman23 wrote:
alchemy wrote:As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

If only they had your keen insight into their true motivations.


Come on, guys and gals, let's not be so naive.


Ryan Freel is white, so how does race even play into the equation?


Bit more of an all-american story in Josh Hamilton than Ryan Freel, wouldn't you agree?


What does that even mean?
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
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Postby Midnight_Toker » Wed May 02, 2007 11:55 pm

AllStar215 wrote:josh hamilton is the Chris Shelton of last year



Based on what exactly?

I love these guys that have probably never seen the guys play, yet they make these absurd statements about them.
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Postby alchemy » Thu May 03, 2007 12:01 am

Midnight_Toker wrote:
AllStar215 wrote:josh hamilton is the Chris Shelton of last year



Based on what exactly?

I love these guys that have probably never seen the guys play, yet they make these absurd statements about them.


He means Hamilton's hot start will evaporate like Shelton's last year. I doubt he is referring to the relative skill level between the two players -- Hamilton being a more talented toolsy guy.

Mind you, Todd Hollandsworth was a very talented toolsy guy too.
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Postby KTM » Thu May 03, 2007 12:03 am

alchemy wrote:
KTM wrote:Considering Hamilton was still suspended by the league this time last year and living in a broom closet to come in to the bigs and even get a hit is impressive. Should he start every day? Probably not. But you need supreme talent to do what he has done.

Not sure what the Rule 5 'rules' are but it would be nice if the Reds could work a $ deal with the Rays so they would have the flexibility to send him down if need be.

Or they could make him a pitcher - he had a 99mph fastball back in the day...


^^ This I agree with.

Hey, if they do make him a pitcher, he could be Jeff Allison.


True - Maybe the Reds take a chance on him in a couple of years - Allison to start, Hamilton to close. Just Googled Allison - looking at prison time now.
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Postby Yoda » Thu May 03, 2007 12:04 am

Midnight_Toker wrote:
AllStar215 wrote:josh hamilton is the Chris Shelton of last year



Based on what exactly?

I love these guys that have probably never seen the guys play, yet they make these absurd statements about them.


I think he means that Josh is a flash in the pan. Which at this point in time, I don't think anyone can know. He clearly has talent but he missed a lot of development time due to his drug habits. It's hard enough to be a productive player without all the baggage he had to carry during his important years.

It is great that he straightened out his life even if he is just a serviceable player. I think a lot of people's expectations were way too high.
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Postby s221506 » Thu May 03, 2007 12:25 am

Is this thread is as blindly reactionary as the pro-Hamilton one? :-?

Yes! It is just the other side of the coin.

His AVG is only down to .254! I don't think it is necessary to list all the MLB players who have worse #'s than Hamilton right now. Plus, he is probably the Reds best defensive outfielder. I posted in another thread that I thought Hamilton is going to go through a real tough period here in May. It is very common for players new to the Majors to struggle after having some success. The key will be if he can keep having good ABs, draw some walks and in a few weeks eventually come out the other end a better/more polished hitter. I think if the Reds keep getting him AB's, he will make some adjustments and be a good to very good Major League player... this year.

I have watched a fair # of his AB's and he has hit the ball hard right at people (to all parts of the field) for a lot of those outs. I still think .270 25HR 90 RBI 15 SB is possible/probable. I understand how incredible it would be but much, much crazier things have happened in baseball. And please no more Shelton comparisons they are just dumb (Or, you think everyone else is so dumb as to think that all players that start hot are automatically on the A-Rod/Pujols level).
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Postby shasty mcnasty » Thu May 03, 2007 12:47 am

s221506 wrote:Is this thread is as blindly reactionary as the pro-Hamilton one? :-?

Yes! It is just the other side of the coin.

His AVG is only down to .254! I don't think it is necessary to list all the MLB players who have worse #'s than Hamilton right now. Plus, he is probably the Reds best defensive outfielder. I posted in another thread that I thought Hamilton is going to go through a real tough period here in May. It is very common for players new to the Majors to struggle after having some success. The key will be if he can keep having good ABs, draw some walks and in a few weeks eventually come out the other end a better/more polished hitter. I think if the Reds keep getting him AB's, he will make some adjustments and be a good to very good Major League player... this year.

I have watched a fair # of his AB's and he has hit the ball hard right at people (to all parts of the field) for a lot of those outs. I still think .270 25HR 90 RBI 15 SB is possible/probable. I understand how incredible it would be but much, much crazier things have happened in baseball. And please no more Shelton comparisons they are just dumb (Or, you think everyone else is so dumb as to think that all players that start hot are automatically on the A-Rod/Pujols level).


yeah, i'm gonna go on record as agreeing with this post, and also as believing that the main premise of this thread (at least as i understand it) is wrong. i don't understand the whole "all-american story" theory, or the "race is an issue here" theory...they sound completely ludicrous to me. i tend to think he'll come out of this drop in production and be a better hitter for it. the diff. in talent level between hamilton and shelton is such that a comparison is absurd, really, even if he does continue to struggle.
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