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Now That The Josh Hamilton Band Wagon Is Starting To End ...

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Postby alchemy » Wed May 02, 2007 10:40 pm

Wk1b25 wrote:
Hmm ... what do Jose Guillen and Wily Mo Pena have in common that Josh Hamilton doesn't?


Hmm...they weren't the first pick of the MLB draft and were never considered to be 5-tool perennial all-star potential players? Or is it neither really got along with the club very well nor fit into their plans long-term at the time, I doubt the players/management in Cincinnati were too upset to get rid of Guillen (just ask Mike Scocia about the clubhouse benefits Guillen adds).

Give me a break, why would you even suggest something so ridiculous.


Guillen was a 5-tool prospect when he started out with Pittsburgh. As to his personality in Cincinatti ... GM Jim Bowden later re-acquired him in Washington so obviously Guillen didn't rub upper management the wrong way.

As to Wily Mo Pena ... another Rule 5 pick-up. Not sure how he was rated when starting out but the fact that he was a Rule 5 pick-up means the Reds thought he had potential.

I don't think it's so ridiculous to suggest that a baseball team in America's heartland would be more inclined to hand a starting job to a white guy over a black guy.

And I'm not specifically saying the Reds are conscious of this. Just that it's a very unique situation for team that is reasonably deep to hand a rookie who has barely played for three years a starting job after two weeks into the season.

But, hey, the numbers will bear out.
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Postby JoshExley » Wed May 02, 2007 10:51 pm

alchemy wrote:
I don't think it's so ridiculous to suggest that a baseball team in America's heartland would be more inclined to hand a starting job to a white guy over a black guy.


Ok, now THAT was ridiculous. Granted Cincy isn't Detroit, but it isn't Nebraska either as you're suggesting.
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Postby Young 8 » Wed May 02, 2007 10:55 pm

0.254
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Postby thedude » Wed May 02, 2007 10:56 pm

alchemy wrote:
Wk1b25 wrote:
Hmm ... what do Jose Guillen and Wily Mo Pena have in common that Josh Hamilton doesn't?


Hmm...they weren't the first pick of the MLB draft and were never considered to be 5-tool perennial all-star potential players? Or is it neither really got along with the club very well nor fit into their plans long-term at the time, I doubt the players/management in Cincinnati were too upset to get rid of Guillen (just ask Mike Scocia about the clubhouse benefits Guillen adds).

Give me a break, why would you even suggest something so ridiculous.


Guillen was a 5-tool prospect when he started out with Pittsburgh. As to his personality in Cincinatti ... GM Jim Bowden later re-acquired him in Washington so obviously Guillen didn't rub upper management the wrong way.

As to Wily Mo Pena ... another Rule 5 pick-up. Not sure how he was rated when starting out but the fact that he was a Rule 5 pick-up means the Reds thought he had potential.

I don't think it's so ridiculous to suggest that a baseball team in America's heartland would be more inclined to hand a starting job to a white guy over a black guy.

And I'm not specifically saying the Reds are conscious of this. Just that it's a very unique situation for team that is reasonably deep to hand a rookie who has barely played for three years a starting job after two weeks into the season.

But, hey, the numbers will bear out.


Wily Mo was not a rule-five pick. He was a very talented Domican teenager who the Yankees foolishly signed to a major league contract. He was then traded to the reds in the drew Henson deal.




Hamilton is by far the most talented player in the Reds. He won't go the bench. Freel is an injury prone utility player whose only real tool is his speed.

BTW to say that the Reds are looking at race is one of the dumber things i have heard.
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Postby alchemy » Wed May 02, 2007 11:12 pm

thedude wrote:Wily Mo was not a rule-five pick. He was a very talented Domican teenager who the Yankees foolishly signed to a major league contract. He was then traded to the reds in the drew Henson deal.

Hamilton is by far the most talented player in the Reds. He won't go the bench. Freel is an injury prone utility player whose only real tool is his speed.

BTW to say that the Reds are looking at race is one of the dumber things i have heard.


I stand corrected on Wily Mo.

As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

Well, as mentioned before, the numbers will show whether or not the Reds have mis-played this decision.

I say no chance he matches Guillen's numbers from 2003.
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Postby AllStar215 » Wed May 02, 2007 11:19 pm

josh hamilton is the Chris Shelton of last year
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Postby rainman23 » Wed May 02, 2007 11:21 pm

alchemy wrote:As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

If only they had your keen insight into their true motivations.
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Postby Young 8 » Wed May 02, 2007 11:22 pm

AllStar215 wrote:josh hamilton is the Chris Shelton of last year


I think he's more like "the Matt Kemp of last year"
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Postby alchemy » Wed May 02, 2007 11:30 pm

rainman23 wrote:
alchemy wrote:As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

If only they had your keen insight into their true motivations.


Come on, guys and gals, let's not be so naive.
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Postby thedude » Wed May 02, 2007 11:39 pm

alchemy wrote:
rainman23 wrote:
alchemy wrote:As to your comment about the Reds and race, you are missing the subtlety of the point. I do not suggest the Reds are "looking" at race, but I would not doubt it sub-consciously plays into the decision.

If only they had your keen insight into their true motivations.


Come on, guys and gals, let's not be so naive.


Ryan Freel is white, so how does race even play into the equation?
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