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Postby Coppermine » Fri May 04, 2007 11:15 am

I know this much; children's behavior and life itself was not indicative of "Leave it to Beaver" in the 1950's.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Fri May 04, 2007 11:29 am

josebach wrote:There was bad and good back in the 50s. There was bad and good in modern day. We both agree, right? I believe they offset each other and you don't. I believe we're evolving and you believe we're regressing. Does that about sum it up?


Offset? You've been supporting an argument that we are more moral now than we have been in the past. Can't have it both ways. Either it's the same or it's different. Which is it now?
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Postby josebach » Fri May 04, 2007 11:35 am

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
josebach wrote:There was bad and good back in the 50s. There was bad and good in modern day. We both agree, right? I believe they offset each other and you don't. I believe we're evolving and you believe we're regressing. Does that about sum it up?


Offset? You've been supporting an argument that we are more moral now than we have been in the past. Can't have it both ways. Either it's the same or it's different. Which is it now?


This is the second time you pulled that out of your butt. I've NEVER said we are more moral now than before. I've said we are no less moral now than we've been before. Let me quote myself:

josebach wrote:There are a lot of parallels between violence and morality as well, which is why I get so perturbed when I hear a certain sect discussing how immoral society is becoming. I personally don't believe people are any less moral now than they were 20, 50, 100 or 1000 years ago. Morality is a VERY relative thing. Of course there are a couple people here who ADAMANTLY disagree with me on this. ;-)
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Fri May 04, 2007 11:55 am

josebach wrote:What would you rather have, a tolerant yet rebellious, free thinking child or a backwards thinking submissive child?


So how is someone supposed to interpret this slanted view of things? Just ignore it and a few other things, and just go off of what you said most recently?
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Postby josebach » Fri May 04, 2007 12:01 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
josebach wrote:What would you rather have, a tolerant yet rebellious, free thinking child or a backwards thinking submissive child?


So how is someone supposed to interpret this slanted view of things? Just ignore it and a few other things, and just go off of what you said most recently?


First of all, a child should be submissive to his parents. This isn't a negative.

So are you saying that because I think some things are better, I'm saying ALL things are better? So does that mean you are saying EVERY aspect of society now is less moral? Good grief, man. You're starting to scare me.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Fri May 04, 2007 12:09 pm

josebach wrote:First of all, a child should be submissive to his parents. This isn't a negative.


From the sound of it, Cho and the Columbine idiots could have been construed as 'submissive' to their parents in that they kept up appearances and nobody noticed that they were missing decision making skills with which most of us are equipped.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Fri May 04, 2007 12:36 pm

josebach wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
josebach wrote:What would you rather have, a tolerant yet rebellious, free thinking child or a backwards thinking submissive child?


So how is someone supposed to interpret this slanted view of things? Just ignore it and a few other things, and just go off of what you said most recently?


First of all, a child should be submissive to his parents. This isn't a negative.

So are you saying that because I think some things are better, I'm saying ALL things are better? So does that mean you are saying EVERY aspect of society now is less moral? Good grief, man. You're starting to scare me.


We're all children at one time. If we're brought up a certain way, chances are, behaviors will continue. This is how it pertains to the quoted post of yours. Your two well-described ( ;-7 ) examples of children could translate into a narcissistic adult vs. a respectful adult. This is how it pertains to our discussion and where I believe you are contradicting yourself.
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Postby josebach » Fri May 04, 2007 2:25 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
josebach wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
josebach wrote:What would you rather have, a tolerant yet rebellious, free thinking child or a backwards thinking submissive child?


So how is someone supposed to interpret this slanted view of things? Just ignore it and a few other things, and just go off of what you said most recently?


First of all, a child should be submissive to his parents. This isn't a negative.

So are you saying that because I think some things are better, I'm saying ALL things are better? So does that mean you are saying EVERY aspect of society now is less moral? Good grief, man. You're starting to scare me.


We're all children at one time. If we're brought up a certain way, chances are, behaviors will continue. This is how it pertains to the quoted post of yours. Your two well-described ( ;-7 ) examples of children could translate into a narcissistic adult vs. a respectful adult. This is how it pertains to our discussion and where I believe you are contradicting yourself.


We've had this debate a dozen times over at the football cafe, so it's really pointless to rehash these same things over here. I admit that it was completely my fault as I'm the one who brought morality up. I also realize I've been doing a little fishing lately and for that I apologize as well. I actually have to hand it to Knapp for staying out of it. I see you and Knapp over here and I immediately get into combat mode because I'm so used to fighting with you two over things religious and moral in nature. There's not many people I dislike, but when I find them, I find fighting with them somewhat of a guilty pleasure. There was a time when I used to fight with wrveres a lot also, but I finally realized the futility of it. Hopefully that will happen with you two guys as well. In the meantime, I'll try to be less antagonistic.
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Postby Madison » Fri May 04, 2007 4:52 pm

josebach wrote:
Madison wrote:No, I spent very little time with my grandparents. What I can tell you is if I acted one tenth as badly as quite a few kids I see act, I wouldn't have lived any longer. Like what I just wrote above, if I had any place in that, be it in the fighting or a bystander trying to egg it on, my father would have killed me, plain and simple. The sad fact is those same kids will be out there doing the same thing again tomorrow because the parents don't care, the system doesn't work, and it's all continuing to get worse. The only question is if it will be empty fists, blades, or guns (and yes, I've seen plenty of kids fire guns in my area, so it wouldn't be a surprise at all). As a 10-12 year old, a knife fight was extremely rare, guns were nowhere to be found, and drugs were not all the prevelant, and I didn't grow up in the best of areas. Now it's commonplace, even in decent areas.

As I've said before though, everyone has their own opinions based on what they see and read. You disagree and that's fine, but visit me and I'll show you the other side.


I don't believe what you're describing is in any way commonplace in decent areas. You bringing up guns retouches on the violence issue. Everybody says how violent America is and they are essentially right. There are statistics to prove it. What they don't point out, however, is that a majority of violence is localized to certain areas. If you've got kids out shooting guns and fighting with knives all the time, it sounds like you live in one of these bad areas and I really don't think making geralizations about all kids based on the kids in your area is in any way fair. What you're describing is in no way the norm. Just my .02.


You've got to factor in everything. We keep getting flooded with more and more illegal aliens here, the Katrina victims are now here, etc, etc, etc. Of course some of them are really good people, but definitely not all of them. Tack that along with the poor parenting nowadays and decent areas are declining in quality. What's bad is that my area isn't anywhere close enough to make the nightly local news. There are much worse areas out there. I'll go through the same process again in a few months. Move to yet another higher rent district, watch that area turn bad, move again and repeat the cycle.

Omaha Red Sox wrote:Bad parenting breeds bad kids who breed more bad parenting who... You're flipflopping. To admit that bad parenting has increased the number of bad kids, but say we're better off than we were is :-? .


Exactly. That cycle will not be stopping anytime soon, so it will continue to get progressively worse.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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