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Is it possible to punt a category and still win?

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Postby hot4tx » Tue May 01, 2007 6:02 pm

jdsun1 wrote:
samjerky wrote:You know I just had a thought, though, on this subject in terms of roto and H2H. If you do what many suggest, which is not to draft closers high, and then decide you still want to compete in saves, you are still essentially punting ERA and WHIP because you're ending up with the Solomon Torres types, is that not so?

At any rate, I did go with that strategy, and I made sure that I've got two pretty decent closers but that the rest of my MRs are really solid MRs so that I'm not definitely not even near the top in saves, but I am near the top in terms of WHIP and ERA (actually at the top).

So I guess I really don't see why MRs are valued so low by so many people. In my limited experience, people try to grab up closers focusing on saves, and so far they seem to have terrible WHIP and ERAs if they didn't put a premium on pitching early in the draft.


My exact thinking and strategy. Pickup Okajima and Cabrera as MRs and sleep a little better at night.

I am at the top in era and whip using these two in H2H. It also helps having haren, snell, hill, kazmir, and hamels.



I am definitely a proponent of MR's value in fantasy.
However, in response to the first part (where the Torres types are likely to ruin your ERA and WHIP) not all FA or late-round closers have horrible ERAs. There are a few that have very good ratios (BJ Ryan in 2005, Pappelbon and Putz last year, Al Reyes so far this year) and most of them have decent ratios - thats why they end up being closers. And even a 4-ish ERA doesn't kill you as they pitch 60-70 innings. Only a few end up being Torres types each year.

So no, getting FA or late-round closers doesn't mean you're punting ERA and WHIP. Having a new closer fail on you over a couple weeks hurts you no more than a young guy having 2 crappy games and then being sent back down (P Hughes?)
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Postby SpecialFNK » Tue May 01, 2007 6:17 pm

what about punting saves in roto?
maybe not exactly punting, but my closers are Fuentes, Weathers, Owens, and Frasor. Fuentes is a closer in Colorado, but should still be good. Weather was removed last season and theres no telling what could happen if/when Guardado returns. Owens has been OK but still rumours say he could be replaced by Tankersley. Frasor will be out once Ryan returns.
i dont want to have to keep trying to pick up average/below average potential closers who might get the chance to close yet could still be terrible and hurt my ERA/WHIP, and i dont want to trade anything valuable for a closer who could blow up and lose his job.
i think im good enough in the offensive catagories and i have some good starting pitching, so i think i could still be ok right?
last year in this same custom league the 3rd place team had a total of 5 saves for the entire season, so its not impossible to do well.
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Postby jake_harv88 » Tue May 01, 2007 7:10 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:what about punting saves in roto?
maybe not exactly punting, but my closers are Fuentes, Weathers, Owens, and Frasor. Fuentes is a closer in Colorado, but should still be good. Weather was removed last season and theres no telling what could happen if/when Guardado returns. Owens has been OK but still rumours say he could be replaced by Tankersley. Frasor will be out once Ryan returns.
i dont want to have to keep trying to pick up average/below average potential closers who might get the chance to close yet could still be terrible and hurt my ERA/WHIP, and i dont want to trade anything valuable for a closer who could blow up and lose his job.
i think im good enough in the offensive catagories and i have some good starting pitching, so i think i could still be ok right?
last year in this same custom league the 3rd place team had a total of 5 saves for the entire season, so its not impossible to do well.



How is having 4 guys who are definately closing right now called punting?


Old_Style wrote:
j24jags wrote:Everyone is spot on. Roto-You can't punt, H2H-It's fine ;-D


And that is why roto leagues are where the real men play. ;-D


Dont start that :-D
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Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue May 01, 2007 7:24 pm

In H2H, I punt catagories all the time. In roto it is too difficult to do, so I stay away from it, but in H2H often times I'll punt either saves or steals.
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Postby bceagles04 » Tue May 01, 2007 7:25 pm

I'm very pissed about my closer situation.

I drafted K-Rod, BJ Ryan, and Wickman in a 12 team h2h figuring I'd be very very solid with closers. BJ goes down, so I traded for Jenks. Wickman goes down and I'm left with 2 closers.

In h2h I usually never draft closers and just go with the Turnbow/Putz/Papelbon kinda guys as they get thrust into the role in the early season.

I am very tempted to trade all my closers, and stack my hitting/starters.
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Postby Chadgo5 » Tue May 01, 2007 8:03 pm

In our 13 team roto league the last three winners have finished 11th, 12th and 11th in SB. Whether it was deliberate or not, they basically punted the SB category and still won it. (roto 6x6 BTW).
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Postby KTM » Wed May 02, 2007 9:34 am

SpecialFNK wrote:what about punting saves in roto?
maybe not exactly punting, but my closers are Fuentes, Weathers, Owens, and Frasor. Fuentes is a closer in Colorado, but should still be good. Weather was removed last season and theres no telling what could happen if/when Guardado returns. Owens has been OK but still rumours say he could be replaced by Tankersley. Frasor will be out once Ryan returns.
i dont want to have to keep trying to pick up average/below average potential closers who might get the chance to close yet could still be terrible and hurt my ERA/WHIP, and i dont want to trade anything valuable for a closer who could blow up and lose his job.
i think im good enough in the offensive catagories and i have some good starting pitching, so i think i could still be ok right?
last year in this same custom league the 3rd place team had a total of 5 saves for the entire season, so its not impossible to do well.


I've punted saves twice in roto and won both times. This is standard 5x5 yahoo settings. Just load up with middle relievers - if the rest of the league is gunning for saves they should be plentiful - you are pretty much guaranteed to win Ws, and they help in era, whip, and k. So you win wins, lose sv, basically splitting the 2 cats down the middle - like you finished mid pack in both.

It helps to have this in place before the draft so you can set up a good offense. This has another advantage in that usually you have an abundance of offense that makes for good trade bait later and it won't hurt you to trade off. players cause you're stacked already.

In your situation trade you're closers for a good SP - overpay if you want to who cares, then get the MR guys. Search this site on the topic or post back and I'll name some. With the guys you have outside of Fuentes they can't be helping you're ratios much.
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Postby StringerBell » Thu May 03, 2007 11:12 pm

KTM wrote:
SpecialFNK wrote:what about punting saves in roto?
maybe not exactly punting, but my closers are Fuentes, Weathers, Owens, and Frasor. Fuentes is a closer in Colorado, but should still be good. Weather was removed last season and theres no telling what could happen if/when Guardado returns. Owens has been OK but still rumours say he could be replaced by Tankersley. Frasor will be out once Ryan returns.
i dont want to have to keep trying to pick up average/below average potential closers who might get the chance to close yet could still be terrible and hurt my ERA/WHIP, and i dont want to trade anything valuable for a closer who could blow up and lose his job.
i think im good enough in the offensive catagories and i have some good starting pitching, so i think i could still be ok right?
last year in this same custom league the 3rd place team had a total of 5 saves for the entire season, so its not impossible to do well.


I've punted saves twice in roto and won both times. This is standard 5x5 yahoo settings. Just load up with middle relievers - if the rest of the league is gunning for saves they should be plentiful - you are pretty much guaranteed to win Ws, and they help in era, whip, and k. So you win wins, lose sv, basically splitting the 2 cats down the middle - like you finished mid pack in both.

It helps to have this in place before the draft so you can set up a good offense. This has another advantage in that usually you have an abundance of offense that makes for good trade bait later and it won't hurt you to trade off. players cause you're stacked already.

In your situation trade you're closers for a good SP - overpay if you want to who cares, then get the MR guys. Search this site on the topic or post back and I'll name some. With the guys you have outside of Fuentes they can't be helping you're ratios much.


Ive actually won doing the flip of this. To me WINS are a shaky stat. For instance, Halladay`s Ws are gonna suffer cause BJ Ryan is hurt.
Having 4-5 closers will guarantee you at the top of Saves in 4X4.
You can use cheap SPs with good WHP and ERA on bad times to amass your minimum IPs---then grind out the rest of the year with the Capps,Broxtons, etc. Plus, if its a keeper league you`ve already got a jump on possible stud Closers.
I have dumped WINS and won. The RPs will still get you occassional wins.
IMHO---Its all about the numbers. Its a lot easier to dominate 3 categories than 4---and saves are easier to get than wins because there are only 30 in MLB. Scarf up 4 or 5 good ones and your GOLDEN.
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Postby Nerfherders » Fri May 04, 2007 12:51 pm

I often end up punting wins, but not for lack of trying! Last year in my 10-team keeper I had a 10 in K's, had the most IP, and had a 3 in wins. This year so far I have an 8 in K's and a 2 in wins. Just no luck. The next league I commish will use quality starts instead of wins. I hate them!
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Postby jswede » Fri May 04, 2007 1:46 pm

KTM wrote:I've punted saves twice in roto and won both times. This is standard 5x5 yahoo settings. Just load up with middle relievers - if the rest of the league is gunning for saves they should be plentiful - you are pretty much guaranteed to win Ws, and they help in era, whip, and k. So you win wins, lose sv, basically splitting the 2 cats down the middle - like you finished mid pack in both.

It helps to have this in place before the draft so you can set up a good offense. This has another advantage in that usually you have an abundance of offense that makes for good trade bait later and it won't hurt you to trade off. players cause you're stacked already.

In your situation trade you're closers for a good SP - overpay if you want to who cares, then get the MR guys. Search this site on the topic or post back and I'll name some. With the guys you have outside of Fuentes they can't be helping you're ratios much.


Interesting line of thinking... who do you recommend in middle relief?
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