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Differentiating value based on league settings (H2H/Roto)

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Differentiating value based on league settings (H2H/Roto)

Postby bceagles04 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:01 pm

I have played in nothing but h2h leagues since I started playing fantasy baseball. I have noticed that some players are just not worth the trouble in h2h. Adam Dunn and Jason Bay are both notorious streaky hitters. I had JBay for the first 1.5 months last year and was SICK of him, but I held onto him and he busted out on that ridiculous HR tear.

I just want to start some conversation on increases/decreases in value based on the league style. Essentially: who do you value you more in h2h. And who do you value more in roto?
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Postby itodd » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:15 pm

it also depends on what kind of h2h though. For regular yahoo h2h where there is no max innings and you can change roster daily, multi-position players and high-K MR get big bumps in value.

i have Wes Helms in all my h2h leagues, but in none of my roto leagues because he can play 2 different infield spots.
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Postby Wharton93 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:30 pm

Adam Dunn is worth a lot more in HTH than in Roto as are most low average/high power hitters. Since their average "resets" every week, you don't have to carry a .234 average all the way until September. Sure, some weeks suck...but even Manny was .148 and JD Drew .087 last week so Dunn's .234 or whatever gets lost in the week to week ups and downs and small sample sizes.

If you do some searching, you'll find some threads from a month or 2 ago about HTH and categories---and the short of it is, that Steals and Saves are not as overpriced in HTH as they are Rotis (for most owners). Some disagree. The end.
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Postby Ender » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:33 pm

I stock up on HR's, RBI, K's and WHIP in H2H the rest mostly takes care of itself. I get enough of the other categories to compete every week but those four are the stats I want to win every week.

I don't really believe streaky guys have any less value than consistent ones and to be honest they are all streaky.
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Postby cwrtlm » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:24 pm

Just to throw another twist on this conversation how are the values different in a points league H2H vs. a categories league? In my points league a guy who hits a 1 run homerun gets 6 points, even if he goes 1-4. Then a guy who goes 4-4 with all singles gets 4 points on the game. Thus the homerun hitter is a higher scorer. How does the following scoring effect values:
1B - Singles 1 point
2B - Doubles 2 points
3B - Triples 3 points
BB - Walks (Batters) 1 point
HR - Home Runs 4 points
R - Runs 1 point
RBI - Runs Batted In 1 point
SB - Stolen Bases 2 points

Scoring for Pitching Categories
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -0.5 points
CG - Complete Games 5 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
HA - Hits Allowed -0.5 points
INN - Innings 2 points
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
S - Saves 10 points
W - Wins 10 points
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Postby Snakes Gould » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:33 pm

cwrtlm wrote:Just to throw another twist on this conversation how are the values different in a points league H2H vs. a categories league? In my points league a guy who hits a 1 run homerun gets 6 points, even if he goes 1-4. Then a guy who goes 4-4 with all singles gets 4 points on the game. Thus the homerun hitter is a higher scorer. How does the following scoring effect values:
1B - Singles 1 point
2B - Doubles 2 points
3B - Triples 3 points
BB - Walks (Batters) 1 point
HR - Home Runs 4 points
R - Runs 1 point
RBI - Runs Batted In 1 point
SB - Stolen Bases 2 points

Scoring for Pitching Categories
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -0.5 points
CG - Complete Games 5 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
HA - Hits Allowed -0.5 points
INN - Innings 2 points
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
S - Saves 10 points
W - Wins 10 points


yeah but you have to assume that a guy who goes 4-4 will have at least 1 run and 1 rbi, giving him the same 6 pts. sure the hr hitter is worth more, because not many guys will go 4-4 often.
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Postby hot4tx » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:49 pm

Adam Dunn is worth a lot more in HTH than in Roto as are most low average/high power hitters. Since their average "resets" every week, you don't have to carry a .234 average all the way until September. Sure, some weeks suck...but even Manny was .148 and JD Drew .087 last week so Dunn's .234 or whatever gets lost in the week to week ups and downs and small sample sizes.


I disagree with this one. Even though a low-batting average hitter has his good weeks and bad weeks, over the 22-23 regular season weeks the team with batters that hit for higher averages will win batting average more times than a team of A Jones, Dunn types. I don't think HTH vs Roto affects these guys value in this way.

However, I do agree that the more consistent players have a little more HTH value as they help you more every week. Especially pitchers. Starters that have a decent overall ERA, but it's made up of great starts and blowups will hurt you more than they help you in HTH. Every SP has his blow ups, but when they happens it really hurts your ratios that week in HTH. A guy that blows up a few times versus one that does it quite a bit has more HTH value.

Another area of added value in HTH is the multi-positioned fantasy bench players that do one thing well. Whether that is high average (F Sanchez), stealing bases (R Freel), or hitting HR (T Wigginton) these guys can be great to plug into your lineup for a weekend series if you are close or behind in their good category and ok or really behind in other categories. For instance - you're dominating a guy in most offensive categories but you're behind in steals... plug in Freel for your power-hitting 2B or 3B. Or you've got 10 SB so far and it's friday - bench Chone or B Roberts for Wigginton and let him help you in HR.

The last value difference I've seen in roto vs HTH is a devaluing of pitchers in general due to matchups and the ability to punt categories. Say you've got a great starting pitching staff - an opponent could load up on MRs with good ratios, pitch the minimum innings and try to take ERA, WHIP with a shot at SVs from you, which would basically nullify - or at least lessen - your advantage. The same thing can happen if a team punts steals or saves... they can get power hitters and good starting pitchers without spending picks or auction $ on steals or saves and have an advantage on you in other categories. In roto this isn't a problem, as the guy punting categories usually hoses himself with the 1 point in that category and has not shot at beating you out for the championship.


Of course whether you have IP/Positions Starts maximums changes value also, but that's a different story.
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Postby JackStraw » Sat May 05, 2007 4:43 am

Adam Dunn is worth a lot more in HTH than in Roto as are most low average/high power hitters. Since their average "resets" every week, you don't have to carry a .234 average all the way until September. Sure, some weeks suck...but even Manny was .148 and JD Drew .087 last week so Dunn's .234 or whatever gets lost in the week to week ups and downs and small sample sizes.

I do agree with this. No way I would want Dunn in roto, in h2h his average is a lot more palatable. I'm also more comfortable using high era/whip pitchers in h2h.
For regular yahoo h2h ... high-K MR get big bumps in value.

I disagree with this too. I think high-K MR is much more valuable in roto where there low era/whip makes a big impact over the course of the season.
Steals and Saves are not as overpriced in HTH as they are Rotis

I definately agree with this
I stock up on HR's, RBI, K's and WHIP in H2H the rest mostly takes care of itself.

and this
the ability to punt categories. ... if a team punts steals or saves... they can get power hitters and good starting pitchers without spending picks or auction $ on steals or saves and have an advantage on you in other categories. In roto this isn't a problem, as the guy punting categories usually hoses himself with the 1 point in that category and has not shot at beating you out for the championship.

I think this is definately true. Punting categories is a very viable strategy in h2h because you are on a 0-1 point system instead of 1-10 or something like that.
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Postby jbauer2485 » Sat May 05, 2007 9:47 am

The Adam Dunn situation makes no sense to me. He's going to accumulate stats that will lead to a year average of .240. That means he's going to have more weeks where his average is very low over weeks where his average is very high. There's no difference in value between roto and h2h in this case, he's going to hurt in average either way.
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Postby YardBirds » Sat May 05, 2007 9:53 am

Leagues aren't won with the best players (H2H), but a full roster of steady producers, week in and week out. I have perfected my draft strategy, especially staying away from notorious slow starters or streaky hitters, and just tried to grab guys that are slow and steady.

05 was my first year of fbb... i drafted the Dunn's, and Manny's and got killed first half and came back second... finished 5th.

06 refined my strategy a bit, but overvalued pitching... finished 4th

07 refined even more but I think i may have undervalued pitching... as of now im in first (36-9-3 .781) Im hoping for a top two finish.

Hopefully next year I'll have my perfect draft strategy.


I'm trying to branch out now and figure out roto... which is a completely different strategy, especially managing pitching....
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