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Clemens choosing between 3 teams... not retirement

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Postby jfg » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:25 pm

Tis wrote:
jfg wrote:
Payne Dailey wrote:
AcidRock23 wrote:Is there some reason for this? Is it deer season in Texas or something like that?


Nope, deer season ended a few months ago.

IMO,I think he'll go to the yankees. They'll give him the special treatment he gets from the Astros.

He's forty four and doesn't need the money. He just gets burned out with the MLB grind. So he takes the first two months off then comes to play when it counts the most.


Then retire like a normal person. I think it's setting a dangerous precedent for baseball.


Why's that? If esteban loaiza said "nah, i dont want to play the first three months... talk to me in june" he'd be done. Its simple economics, supply and demand... weird things like clemens extra long off-season are simply another type of costs, factored in with the rest. If his product isnt worth it, he wont get it.

Keep in mind too, most people are not signing 1 year contracts, they want job security, they want to cash in on a big season, etc. People in those situations dont have the option of pulling a Roger.

I am assuming you dont have any problem with teams signing a contract for half a year with someone, to replace another player who was injured. How is this any different?


It's a different situation because Clemens wasn't cut from a team. He's choosing to sit out half a season. It's just a bad precedent to set. Players are no longer asked to play a full season to earn their big dollars and big market teams can bring in ringers now along with trading for big contracts. Free agency was hard enough for small market teams with no salary cap, but now they have to watch the big markets bring in foreign players who are exempt from the draft and half-season players as well? The game's a business but this is ridiculous.

It's only Clemens right now, but he's setting an example for other stars in the league. Estaban Loaiza is not a star. I could see a bunch of stars right now doing this at the end of their career to stay out of cold weather and working out on his own. They might not be as dominant as Clemens but they will still be bid on by the big market teams.
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Postby jfg » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:30 pm

What does he care about some precedent? Why would he retire when he can come back for a ton of money, still be one of the best pitchers in the league, and not even have to go on road trips when he's not scheduled to pitch? Not to mention the possibility of winning another ring.


Those were two seperate thoughts. I know Roger Clemens doesn't care about precedent. Roger Clemens cares about Roger Clemens. He's shown us that often.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:35 pm

jfg wrote:
What does he care about some precedent? Why would he retire when he can come back for a ton of money, still be one of the best pitchers in the league, and not even have to go on road trips when he's not scheduled to pitch? Not to mention the possibility of winning another ring.


Those were two seperate thoughts. I know Roger Clemens doesn't care about precedent. Roger Clemens cares about Roger Clemens. He's shown us that often.

But why are you criticizing him for that? Most players, no, make that people in general, only care about themselves when it comes to money.
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Postby RocketsDWM » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:44 pm

2 threads on him started by the same poster? This really needed another thread?
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Postby jfg » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:46 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
jfg wrote:
What does he care about some precedent? Why would he retire when he can come back for a ton of money, still be one of the best pitchers in the league, and not even have to go on road trips when he's not scheduled to pitch? Not to mention the possibility of winning another ring.


Those were two seperate thoughts. I know Roger Clemens doesn't care about precedent. Roger Clemens cares about Roger Clemens. He's shown us that often.

But why are you criticizing him for that? Most players, no, make that people in general, only care about themselves when it comes to money.


I'm not criticizing Clemens really. I'm just upset about what it is doing to baseball and that the majority of people involved in the game can do nothing about it. There are a few teams that keep changing the nature of the game and that's not right. So it's those few teams that I am criticizing and I suppose I'm also criticizing Selig for sitting back and watching it happen.

The blame will fall on Clemens shoulders though when more players decide that they want to do this at the end of their career, because he will be the one brought up.
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Postby teddy ballgame » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:02 pm

RocketsDWM wrote:2 threads on him started by the same poster? This really needed another thread?

Well the other one was an old one that got bumped, so it's not his fault they're both here. But yeah, they should be merged.
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Postby Mercer Boy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:57 pm

jfg wrote:
teddy ballgame wrote:
jfg wrote:
What does he care about some precedent? Why would he retire when he can come back for a ton of money, still be one of the best pitchers in the league, and not even have to go on road trips when he's not scheduled to pitch? Not to mention the possibility of winning another ring.


Those were two seperate thoughts. I know Roger Clemens doesn't care about precedent. Roger Clemens cares about Roger Clemens. He's shown us that often.

But why are you criticizing him for that? Most players, no, make that people in general, only care about themselves when it comes to money.


I'm not criticizing Clemens really. I'm just upset about what it is doing to baseball and that the majority of people involved in the game can do nothing about it. There are a few teams that keep changing the nature of the game and that's not right. So it's those few teams that I am criticizing and I suppose I'm also criticizing Selig for sitting back and watching it happen.

The blame will fall on Clemens shoulders though when more players decide that they want to do this at the end of their career, because he will be the one brought up.


I'm placing as much blame on the teams that give into his demands...if they would tell him, "Sorry bud, if you want to play on our team you need to be with the team...I don't care how good you are," this wouldn't happen. But teams that have deep pockets (and probably teams that have shallower ones) don't care; they will cave into what he wants because he's really good and can help them win in the post-season.

It is a horrible precedent that I hope no other players follow, but I wouldn't doubt it will happen. Scottie Pippen was trying to do it in the NBA this year. Clemens is being very greedy, but since he's a great pitcher he will get a pass from a lot of people... :-/
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Postby jfg » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:25 pm

Yeah that's what I was saying. The fault lies on a few teams for a good chunk of the problems with baseball and ulimately on the commissioner and the players union for letting it happen. I only was saying that when more players start doing it it will be known as "pulling a Clemens".
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Postby d18Mike » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Why not? Talent is any field is distributed along a bell curve. Only that elite 5% would ever be given the opportunity to do what Clemens is doing and very few will a) want to b) be able to. Its their right and its the club's decision on how they spend the money.

Every season for a half decade we endured the Michael Jordan retirement/return watch. Every boxer who has ever won a championship has retired at least 5 times. People pay millions a year to watch washed-up golfers on the Senior Tour.

If we can see one of the greatest pitchers of all time throw for a few more seasons -- even for a few month effectively -- I don't have a problem with that.
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Postby jfg » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:16 am

d18Mike wrote:Why not? Talent is any field is distributed along a bell curve. Only that elite 5% would ever be given the opportunity to do what Clemens is doing and very few will a) want to b) be able to. Its their right and its the club's decision on how they spend the money.

Every season for a half decade we endured the Michael Jordan retirement/return watch. Every boxer who has ever won a championship has retired at least 5 times. People pay millions a year to watch washed-up golfers on the Senior Tour.

If we can see one of the greatest pitchers of all time throw for a few more seasons -- even for a few month effectively -- I don't have a problem with that.


Except for Jordan it doesn't matter if players retire and unretire. Those are individual sports. Nobody is bidding for their services. Sure, I like watching Clemens pitch. I don't like the idea of mercenaries in baseball especially when their isn't a salary cap. At least there is something resembling a cap in basketball so Jordan couldn't just sign with anyone. At least in basketball when players search for rings they have to take the mid-level exception to do so.
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