kentx12 wrote:Maddux would be a great fit for the Mets. A declineing older player. That are the type they love to give big money too.
i agree and the mets moto should be your past your prime come over here we give u the big bucks lol
Then answer the question. You guys profess to know their MO. And you were right -in the Steve Phillips era.
Bt this place continues to paint the Mets with that old brush. So tell me: What old past his prime vet has Duquette signed?
It depends. Was he on board when they signed Glavine?
The reason the Mets are a joke around here is because their objective for many years now has been to assemble as much talent as possible -- usually older -- then it has been to assemble a team. I don't even think you, Moose, can disagree that it has been a disaster for the most part.
Now, we here the talk that they believe they're one old superstar away from contention makes most of us snicker because that has been their thinking before the GM change. In most of our minds, if they sign Maddux it means nothing has changed in the organization. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
You can continue to last out at the Met jokes if you want, but in my opinion they are well deserved, especially since teams with half their payroll find ways to compete.
Believe me guys - no one is a harsher critic of the Mets than me. You are totally right about their philosphy during the Phillips era (and yes Glavine, another stupid move, was Phillips' decision). But since Duquette took over, he singlehandedly changed their philosophy to building through the farm system and acquiring athletic players who are suited to play in Shea, a brutal hitters park. Basically that means guys with speed who hit the gaps, not necessarily power hitters - John Olerud (of course without speed) types if you will.
They also stopped giving out guarranteed long term contracts. IE - Vlad's contract was only guarranteed 3 years at 30 million. If he stayed healthy it was 5 years at 72 million total. He actually would have made the most money with NYM if he could stay healthy. Obviously a guy with a bad back will take the guarranteed bank. Dont blame him.
Right now they have a great farm. Ranked #3 overall by Baseball Weekly. They are on the right track
I just wanted to clear that up, thats all. Trust me, I know how stupid almost all the moves Phillips made were. Glavine was an idiotic signing. As was Cedeno. Giving Ordonez 4 years/ 24 mil was unbelievably retarded. The Vaughn and Alomar deals blew up in their face. In fact the Vaughn deal was the biggest mistake of all. So yeah - I know how azz-backward they have been in the recent past.
But dont for a second think they are getting Maddux. Wont happen. But it would if Phillips were still here. And for the record I think Wilpon is an idiot too.
Unless there's a dramatic change in the Cubs' philosophy over the next 24-48 hours, fans can stop dreaming of a return to Chicago for Greg Maddux.
A Cubs source said Sunday night that the team was trying to scrape up money for an offer befitting the future Hall of Famer, but that the team probably wasn't going to be able to match significant offers from two other clubs.
As reported here more than a month ago, Maddux's first choice was to return to Chicago to end his career with the Cubs, hopefully with another World Series ring in his pocket and his 300th victory in the bank.
Since then, negotiations have been quietly ongoing, sources on both sides have been telling us for weeks.
The Cubs have tried to downplay expectations of a Maddux return because another failure to sign Maddux would be heartbreaking to the fans who still haven't gotten over the Stan Cook-Larry Himes disaster of 1991-1992.
The Cubs have to deny it for public-relations reasons, but the fact is talks have been slow but consistent, with Maddux waiting to see if the Cubs would emerge from the pack with a respectable offer.
Sources close to Maddux say he already has on the table two major offers (rumored to be from the Cardinals and the Orioles), and several smaller ones from teams hoping to get him at a ridiculously reduced price.
The Giants also are thought to be entering the fray.
The problem, Cubs general manager Jim Hendry is probably thinking, is that if he somehow finds the extra money it would take to sign a Maddux and/or a Pudge Rodriguez, he would leave no funds available for midseason acquisitions.
As dominant as the Cubs would look by adding Maddux and/or Rodriguez, you can never forecast injuries, and Hendry is smart to worry about contingencies.
However, the Cubs might be able to run out to such a big lead in the NL Central that they won't have to worry about finding the next Randall Simon and Kenny Lofton.
Besides, the Cubs could make a fortune off these guys and earn their money back plus some when they're playing meaningful games in August and September.
No, they can't sell many more tickets than they already have without two more big names, and it's a hard sell to ownership when it knows it can win the division without any more signings.
But imagine the TV ratings when Maddux is going for No. 300.
Imagine the ad rates the Cubs could charge down the stretch when they're attempting to clinch.
Imagine the fun this would be.
Maddux is no fool, and neither are Cubs fans. Everyone knows the market is shrinking and there aren't any better places for Maddux to pitch.
He wants to win. He wants to stay in the National League. He wants to pitch at least two more years. He wants to be paid a reasonable wage. He wants to be within a few hours' flying distance of Las Vegas.
He'd like to come "home'' and give something back to Cubs fans, who still treat him like a king.
Only one team can give him all these things. The Cubs are aware of this and are trying to use that leverage to keep the price down, hoping he will fall into their laps.
But that's not going to happen.
It's really quite simple. If the Cubs don't make a respectable offer very soon, Maddux will find another place to play.
The reason you've heard nothing about these talks in the last month is because Hendry also is no dummy. He knows if this falls apart, he will have to deny negotiations ever took place, or risk alienating Cubs fans.
It's just that there are so many reasons to do it and only one not to: money. The Cubs can find it, and they should.
If they don't, the Cubs still are the team to catch in the NL, and it won't derail their World Series train.
But it sure will take some of the steam out of it.
OK everybody, we know what's going to happen here because it happens the EXACT same way with every marquis free agent - so don't be shocked and hurt:
1. Agent picks up the phone and calls BOTH New York teams to get them into the bidding.
2. NYC money drives the cost up
3. Agent and player field offers from teams where the player really wants to sign with
4. Small market team makes an offer.
5. NYC teams make their half assed offers
6. Player signs with best offer from small market (unless they really want to come to NYC)
Mets fans, don't cry over Vlad. Your team was never serious about him and he wasn't serious about you. The Mets offer was nowhere near what he wanted. He is not an incentive player. Anyone that was serious about signing him wouldn't have even tried that trick.
As for Maddux, Boras WILL ask for the moon for him. Don't even think otherwise. While Maddux has a couple of 15+ win seasons left, it's not gonna be worth the price. And since the Mets are still recovering from Steve Phillips' geriatric spending sprees, I doubt they'll pull the trigger.
However, the Mets must make a couple of serious moves before spring training. They are not one superstar from 90 wins, not in that division. They are more like one key injury away from another last place finish.
Oh, and the Mets deserve whatever abuse comes thier way. They have just as much cash as the Yanks but about a quarter of the baseball IQ. They are living proof that you can't buy a pennant.
lesgrant wrote:Oh, and the Mets deserve whatever abuse comes thier way. They have just as much cash as the Yanks but about a quarter of the baseball IQ. They are living proof that you can't buy a pennant.
Hall of Fame Hero
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2004,2005 Keeper League Champion
No the Yankees would be better proof that you cant buy the World Series.
the offer to Vlad was a smart one and if you'd studied the numbers you'd find it was worth more than Anaheim's. True, he had no intention of coming in but it wasnt a "trick" as you put it. Get real. I know Yankee fans hate the Mets (and its mutual) but try to hide your bias. Let Steinbrenner sign the injury plagued players. ie - Lofton ,Brown
moose wrote:They wont get Maddux anyway. (thank God) This is more crap from the NY tabloids. It isnt fit to wipe your arse with.
Maddux hates NY. Remember the offseason of 92?
yes but he has an agent who loves that New York Money. Nobody else is offering that kinda of cash ... I'd say its a perfect fit for the Mets. It fits the Mets style, old, declining and overpaid.
I still think Greg will end up on the West coast though. Maybe a little partnership with RJ. One night Greg lulls ya to sleep, The next night RJ smokes it buy ya, and the third night Webb has you whiffing at balls bouncing.
Answer me this: since Jim Duquette took over, how many old declining players has he signed? Look it up. You guys might learn something about a team you pretend to know about.
well since he has only had the job for two and a half months, I'd say the Jury is still out ..
But since you asked...
Old or Declining Players that Duquette has signed since he took over two and a half months ago .
John Franco .. 43 .. old and declining
Joe Mc Ewing .. 31 .. Baby Mac? woohoo..that ought to get you excited huh?
Vance Wilson .. 31 .. Gotta Love that 3 cathcer theory
Mike Cameron .. 31 .. Declining .. and hey, welcome to Shea
Timo Perez .. 29 .. I hope you're not expecting him to get better?
Looper .. 29 .. Lost his gig last season on a World Series team. should be great help for the Mets since they won't have to worry about that kind of pressure for a while.
and then ...
Matsui .. 28 .. not a bad signing, but forcing your future star SS to change positions is just nuts. Especially when they have so many holes. Now you have two unprovens right up the middle. Its gonna be funny if this guys turns out to be just like the last Asian player the Mets signed .... Shinjo
what else ya wanna know about the Mets?
..hey and by the way, If I needed to give Duquette a letter grade for his first two and a half months, I saying a "D" ..