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Mark Prior signs 1-year deal with the DL

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Postby knapplc » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:59 am

There is nothing wrong with the Cubs' pitching staff, past or present, that you can pin on Dusty Baker. Dusty was a fine manager working for a stupid organization. The Cubs' record of futility predates Dusty by decades, and unless the new owner has a head for baseball (instead of the ridiculousness that was the Trib's mismanagement of the club) they're going to continue to be a might-have-been team for the foreseeable future.

The injury trouble for Prior and/or Wood has nothing to do with how Dusty did or did not use them. Prior especially, considering his biggest issues are his base-path blunder and being plunked by a line drive. How anyone can blame those things on Dusty is beyond me. Wood is simply a victim of poor mechanics, and he has simply not adjusted his mechanics to allow his arm to have anything resembling durability.

Personally, if you want to find anyone to “blame” for the Cubs’ poor pitching staff, the first person who comes to mind, the man who has been in charge of that pitching staff for 5+ years and who predates Dusty on the club, is Larry Rothschild. I don’t know if you can blame him for the woes of the staff, but the bottom line is that aside from 2003, this team’s staff has been tremendously underwhelming during Rothschild’s tenure.
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Postby mrkrab2003 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:09 pm

knapplc wrote:There is nothing wrong with the Cubs' pitching staff, past or present, that you can pin on Dusty Baker. Dusty was a fine manager working for a stupid organization. The Cubs' record of futility predates Dusty by decades, and unless the new owner has a head for baseball (instead of the ridiculousness that was the Trib's mismanagement of the club) they're going to continue to be a might-have-been team for the foreseeable future.

The injury trouble for Prior and/or Wood has nothing to do with how Dusty did or did not use them. Prior especially, considering his biggest issues are his base-path blunder and being plunked by a line drive. How anyone can blame those things on Dusty is beyond me. Wood is simply a victim of poor mechanics, and he has simply not adjusted his mechanics to allow his arm to have anything resembling durability.

Personally, if you want to find anyone to “blame” for the Cubs’ poor pitching staff, the first person who comes to mind, the man who has been in charge of that pitching staff for 5+ years and who predates Dusty on the club, is Larry Rothschild. I don’t know if you can blame him for the woes of the staff, but the bottom line is that aside from 2003, this team’s staff has been tremendously underwhelming during Rothschild’s tenure.


Dusty is a horrible manager, at least he was with the cubs. I didnt follow him before he came to chicago. Im glad he is out of the game and I would be surprise if another team took a chance with this incompetent manager.
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Postby wrveres » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:16 pm

mrkrab2003 wrote:
Dusty is a horrible manager, at least he was with the cubs. I didnt follow him before he came to chicago. Im glad he is out of the game and I would be surprise if another team took a chance with this incompetent manager.


I am pretty sure Dusty could say the same thing about the some of the fans of Chicago.

* horrible fans
* surprise that the some of these fans actually have a job.
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Postby shasty mcnasty » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:16 pm

Chrisy Moltisanti wrote:
shasty mcnasty wrote:
wrveres wrote:
shasty mcnasty wrote:
umh, i'm pretty sure i didn't come up with that theory on my own. guess i should have expressed myself a bit more clearly for those that love good ol' dusty....here ya' go....
Dusty Baker has a reputation for being a pitcher butcher.
Will that work better for you? I mean, i have no idea if Baker's philosophy on pitchers has actually harmed anyone...i've got no analysis or numbers to offer...it was an off-hand comment which i'm pretty sure is shared by many more than myself. but ya' know, maybe i'm just a sheep on topics such as Bonds/Dusty/Prior. Image


lol .. ok.

No stresses.
Just so you know the awnser, it is NONE.


for interest's sake, didn't he have the rep of badly handling pitchers (overuse) before he came to chi-town? I'm pretty sure i remember interviews of media guys from SF when he first came to chicago, and that they said that he did perhaps have a weakness in that area...memory can be a tricky thing, so maybe i'm way off-base here...i'm sure you'd know more about his rep. from before he came to chicago...


Go ahead and call Jose Guillen a headcase, but if there is no substantial information about a player in such regards, don't talk crap.


umh, i tried to explain that statement earlier, but apparently you didn't read that post. your response has nothing to do with the post to which you responded, and jose guillen has nothing to do with anything.

in some ways, he seems like something of a headcase...maybe that happened after the injuries, i can't remember


if the above statement qualifies as "talking crap," then i guess i stand convicted as charged. It didn't seem that offensive to me, but i guess if you have a strong emotional investment in Mark Prior, apparently any opinion of him that hints at negativity is, "talking crap." ;-7
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Postby knapplc » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:20 pm

mrkrab2003 wrote:Dusty is a horrible manager, at least he was with the cubs. I didnt follow him before he came to chicago. Im glad he is out of the game and I would be surprise if another team took a chance with this incompetent manager.


If this is simply your opinion then OK, but if you're alleging this is fact than I'd ask you to show some examples of exactly how Dusty is a "horrible manager." I don't agree with that assessment, nor have I seen any examples that I would consider blatantly pointing that way.

Most "incompetent managers" don't take teams to the World Series, or deep in the playoffs, or to the playoffs at all. It's pretty difficult to accidently manage a team into the postseason.
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Postby shasty mcnasty » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:20 pm

wrveres wrote:
mrkrab2003 wrote:
Dusty is a horrible manager, at least he was with the cubs. I didnt follow him before he came to chicago. Im glad he is out of the game and I would be surprise if another team took a chance with this incompetent manager.


I am pretty sure Dusty could say the same thing about the some of the fans of Chicago.

* horrible fans
* surprise that the some of these fans actually have a job.


and i'm pretty sure that Dusty and the fans would all be right in their assessments. ;-D
i also agree with the above assessment on the Cubs as a franchise...the whole thing is some kind of vortex...bad ownership...bad managers...bad GMs...bad fans...pitching woes...bad luck...futility. To pin any of it on one guy or one circumstance or one manager is a failure to see the bigger picture of ridiculous incompetence.
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Postby shasty mcnasty » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:25 pm

knapplc wrote:
mrkrab2003 wrote:Dusty is a horrible manager, at least he was with the cubs. I didnt follow him before he came to chicago. Im glad he is out of the game and I would be surprise if another team took a chance with this incompetent manager.


If this is simply your opinion then OK, but if you're alleging this is fact than I'd ask you to show some examples of exactly how Dusty is a "horrible manager." I don't agree with that assessment, nor have I seen any examples that I would consider blatantly pointing that way.

Most "incompetent managers" don't take teams to the World Series, or deep in the playoffs, or to the playoffs at all. It's pretty difficult to accidently manage a team into the postseason.


although he called Dusty, "horrible," he did qualify it by saying, "with the cubs." There's not alot of support for the idea that he did a good job with the Cubs...of course, it may not even have been possible to manage that team well, i'm not sure. As for his previous success, i seem to remember an (almost? ;-7 ) unnaturally good baseball player that sure didn't hurt his ability to manage a game.
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Postby mrkrab2003 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:34 pm

bad fans lol..That couldnt be further from the truth. Can you blame the fans for being upset? Actually many think that the cubs have one of the best fanbases in the game. Anyways the bad fan award goes to the yankee fans or red sox
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Postby Rounders » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:46 pm

must b the goat
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Postby knapplc » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:49 pm

mrkrab2003 wrote:bad fans lol..That couldnt be further from the truth. Can you blame the fans for being upset? Actually many think that the cubs have one of the best fanbases in the game. Anyways the bad fan award goes to the yankee fans or red sox


I think that Cubs fans have to be the best in baseball. For the product that is put on the field year in and year out, to still be supportive of that team, we are all freakin’ heroes.

As for Dusty, I can’t see how blaming him for mismanaging that team during his tenure can stick. How many other managers have they had in the past 20 years, and have any of them been markedly more successful?

No, I think the problem lies in the structure of the organization, their lack of understanding fundamentals about how to manage a ball club, how to evaluate talent, how to develop that talent and how to ultimately be successful. There is simply something wrong with this team from a basic standpoint, and it’s not Dusty’s fault, nor is it going to be Lou’s fault, just like it wasn’t Don Baylor’s fault, or Riggleman’s fault, or Trebelhorn’s, or Zimmer’s or Lefebvre’s or any others throughout the decades. Remember, this is the same team (albeit different owners) who thought the “College of Coaches” would be a good idea.
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