Abstinance Only Education Study - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Abstinance Only Education Study

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby knapplc » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:19 pm

Tukka wrote:Coming in a bit late on the discussion, but I agree with a lot of the sentiments that have been expressed already. I think that in schools, sex education should just be treated as a subset of biology, and physical education.

Teach the facts. Describe to students what sexual intercourse is and what the possible and probable consequences of doing it are. Explain how pregnancy occurs, how and why sex (and other sexual activity) is an effective vector for the spread of a variety of diseases, teach the anatomy of the sexual organs, what orgasm is (in both genders) and how and why it occurs, and what sex does to your body (release of endorphins, etc.).

Such a thorough education might get rather explicit at times, but then that's the whole point. You can't teach something very well by beating around the bush (no pun intended). You have to want to teach the subject of discussion and have no qualms about answering any pertinent questions your students might ask and indeed you want to engage in such a way that they don't have to feel ashamed about answering any questions they might have.

However, I think it is pretty clear that those who are bent on teaching "abstinence only" are not interested in educating students as much as they are interested in pushing a specific moral (not educational) agenda.

I don't think abstinence-only programs are really there to prevent teen pregnancies or the spread of STDs. No amount of scientific evidence one way or the other is going to make the people who push abstinence-only education the hardest change their tune, because pregnancies and STDs aren't their primary concern.

Their primary concern is keeping young people, especially women, ignorant about their options when it comes to contraception and abortion. It's a cultural thing, a taboo. It's to keep people (again, especially women) as ignorant and ashamed about their bodies as possible.

Hopefully the results of this study will precipitate a change in education policy around the country for a fuller, broader treatment of a subject that all of us have to deal with in our lives at one moment or another, but for the reasons I mention I doubt that'll happen.


Is this all opinion or do you have some support for these views? Especially the part where people are trying to "keep women as ignorant and ashamed about their bodies as possible." I'd like to know who's pushing that agenda.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7871
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Postby knapplc » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:21 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:My wife is currently pregnant with our first. We are not going to find out whether it's a boy or girl until it's born. If it is a girl, my opinion won't change.


It's too bad more dad's don't think like this. The world would be such a better place.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7871
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Postby Tukka » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:14 pm

Is this all opinion or do you have some support for these views? Especially the part where people are trying to "keep women as ignorant and ashamed about their bodies as possible." I'd like to know who's pushing that agenda.

It's mostly opinion. It's the hard Christian right that is pushing that agenda the most. The strongest supporters of abstinence-only education tend to be from that political/social bloc, or at least that is the impression I've gathered from the media and in my admittedly limited investigation of the issue. I've also read and heard things that suggest that more conservative populations have equal or higher rates of teen pregnancy than the national average.

So it could be an ineffectual policy or attitude that, through ignorance, still sees widespread favor (cultural momentum, the weight of old taboos, etc.) but throughout American culture there is a double-standard when it comes to the way we look at sex between the two genders. We are generally seem more permissive of promiscuity (or even infidelity) from men than women and in Western society in general, women have never exactly been on equal footing with men when it comes to recognition of rights or respect in the workplace, though the situation has of course been steadily improving for a while now.

And ultimately, one of the major consequences of sex (pregnancy) falls on the woman most directly. A woman who was never formally educated about effective birth control methods and has sex without birth control and gets pregnant is the one who has to carry to pregnancy to term and probably care for the child, whether she wants to or not (particularly in a situation where abortion is impractical for social, cultural or legal reasons).

By making extensive teaching and discussion of human sexuality taboo (especially when dealing with children and teenagers) you (general) are suggesting that there is something to be ashamed about concernig sex -- clearly shame is a part of the equation. And someone who does not know something is, by definition, ignorant of that thing. So I do not think it is a stretch to say it is about making the people/women feel ashamed and ignorant about sex.

Most people who support abstinence-only sex-ed probably don't consciously think of it as making teenagers feel ashamed or keeping them ignorant, but I would argue that it's how they've been conditioned to think about sex -- that there is something "wrong" with it, that it is something that can't be spoken of in public even with the best of intentions and the most noble of purposes, even if it means negative social consequences ensue.

...

On another note, the eight rules are absolutely ridiculous, I'm not sure if he was doing an exaggerated parody of a stupid, overprotective parent or if the guy actually thinks these are some good (in principle) ground rules to apply to guys courting his daughter.

The guy says he's going to judge you on a superficial characteristic (baggy clothing) and then not make any effort to get to know you by engaging you in conversation -- in fact he doesn't want you to even attempt to engage him in conversation. This is just stupid. Don't you want to know who is dating your daughter, to form some opinion of him based on something beside what he looks like and what she tells you about him (if you ever listen). Then there's the ostrich syndrome where he doesn't want you even holding her hand in his presence ... I guess if he doesn't see her displaying signs of affection or familiarity with her date, he can pretend she's a totally asexual virginal princess. And then there is his Internet Tough Guy posturing with threats of homicidal violence.

Thoroughly stupid from pretty much top to bottom.
Tukka Beginner
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 174
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Coppermine » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:19 pm

I thought the 8 rules were a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. You know, crazy dad, maybe a Vietnam vet with PTS showing off his knives, cleaning his shotgun when the guy comes to the door. I figured it was all redneck legend.

Although I suppose some people actually think that way. The most interesting thing about this study is that your kids are perfectly capable of making responsible decisions... although, no matter what you do, no matter what you say, no matter how many knives you sharpen or guns you clean, your little girl is having sex. :-D
If you're a battery, you're either working or you're dead....
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:12 am

Just skimming through this post, I agree that the choice for sexual education should be up to the parents, but I think it's a matter of give and take (yeah bad euphemism), there should be a good measure of open communication between student, parent, and school when it comes to sex.

From my personal experience, my parents were very awkward in talking about it during my teenage years and seriously never brought it up to me, but didn't mind me being subject to being taught sex ed at the time. I reckon they placed so much trust in me knowing that I'd make the right decision either way I had taken, even though it's a blessing in that regard and a curse knowing that my parents might have wanted to make a proactive stance, especially given that their thoughts on sex are deeply rooted in traditional Catholic ideology. They weren't really too keen about me having a live-in girlfriend and with the girlfriend before that, but again, at the end of the day, I had their blessing.

There are just so many factors in play on how parents want to handle this, in my opinion, but hey, this is why I'm glad I'm single and unattached with kids and a life partner and what not. :-D
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Postby ironman » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am

knapplc wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:My wife is currently pregnant with our first. We are not going to find out whether it's a boy or girl until it's born. If it is a girl, my opinion won't change.


It's too bad more dad's don't think like this. The world would be such a better place.


Jeez, it's supposed to be a funny joke. Do you guys really think I'm going to create a knife and rifle collection? Excuse me if I'm going to be protective of my daughter.
Image
Wendigo's Camaro
ironman
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerEagle EyeWeb Supporter
Posts: 4901
(Past Year: 94)
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Dubuque

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:16 pm

ironman wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:My wife is currently pregnant with our first. We are not going to find out whether it's a boy or girl until it's born. If it is a girl, my opinion won't change.


It's too bad more dad's don't think like this. The world would be such a better place.


Jeez, it's supposed to be a funny joke. Do you guys really think I'm going to create a knife and rifle collection? Excuse me if I'm going to be protective of my daughter.


I realize it's supposed to be a joke, but in my opinion, it's in bad taste. Not only does it do all that Tukka so eloquently pointed out, but it perpetuates the notion that daughters are property, that they can't think and act for themselves but must have their father there to determine what they do and whith whom. But the true crime is that it's not funny. Even if I find something distasteful or offensive, I can forgive a lot as long as it's funny...this isn't.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby knapplc » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:32 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
ironman wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:My wife is currently pregnant with our first. We are not going to find out whether it's a boy or girl until it's born. If it is a girl, my opinion won't change.


It's too bad more dad's don't think like this. The world would be such a better place.


Jeez, it's supposed to be a funny joke. Do you guys really think I'm going to create a knife and rifle collection? Excuse me if I'm going to be protective of my daughter.


I realize it's supposed to be a joke, but in my opinion, it's in bad taste. Not only does it do all that Tukka so eloquently pointed out, but it perpetuates the notion that daughters are property, that they can't think and act for themselves but must have their father there to determine what they do and whith whom. But the true crime is that it's not funny. Even if I find something distasteful or offensive, I can forgive a lot as long as it's funny...this isn't.


Thus saith the Joke Police. }:-) }:-)

Image
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7871
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Previous

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 12:00 hours
(and 100 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact