ajgdrums7814 wrote: You don't have to hold Bonds' record in high regard...I don't. But I don't stand up on some pedestal and pretend that baseball was a pure sport before Barry Bonds came along.
So because it wasn't pure before he got here, it's ok for him to muddy the water even more?
ajgdrums7814 wrote: You don't have to hold Bonds' record in high regard...I don't. But I don't stand up on some pedestal and pretend that baseball was a pure sport before Barry Bonds came along.
So because it wasn't pure before he got here, it's ok for him to muddy the water even more?
ROFL!
i'm pretty sure thats not what hes saying at all...hes saying that people are making this out like there was never any cheating in baseball and that it was absolutely pure before barry came along...nobody is saying that it was ok for barry to 'muddy the water' but people also need to realize that barry isn't the first and only player ever to cheat
ajgdrums7814 wrote: You don't have to hold Bonds' record in high regard...I don't. But I don't stand up on some pedestal and pretend that baseball was a pure sport before Barry Bonds came along.
So because it wasn't pure before he got here, it's ok for him to muddy the water even more?
ROFL!
i'm pretty sure thats not what hes saying at all...hes saying that people are making this out like there was never any cheating in baseball and that it was absolutely pure before barry came along...nobody is saying that it was ok for barry to 'muddy the water' but people also need to realize that barry isn't the first and only player ever to cheat
Exactly.
I don't condone any of the cheating or lack of fair play in baseball, but you can't refute that it has happened, is happening and will continue to happen. Barry Bonds taking steroids is of no real concern to me as a baseball fan. Do I wish the steroids era never occurred and that this sport was pure? Absolutely. I'm a realist, though. People always have looked for ways to gain competitive advantage, and they always will. The very 'baseball heroes' that we blame Bonds for trashing (Ruth, Aaron, Mays, etc.) did just what Bonds did: look for an edge. Their edge wasn't steroids obviously...steroids weren't available to them. They used amphetamines and the like. Players in Ruth's day had their advantage built into the game, by not allowing numerous great, great ballplayers to even take the field...and still players used cork bats and doctored balls and on and on and on.
The game isn't clean. You don't have to like Barry Bonds. You don't have to cherish his record. But at least realize that he isn't any more of a cheater than any other player who have tried to gain an advantage...he's just better than them between the lines.
Yoda wrote:The funniest part about this whole * deal is that Bonds has yet to fail a drug test and yet he is still hitting bombs. And doing it at near the highest AB% in MLB. But then again we need to account for his magical elbow pad which makes him swing faster and harder.
He failed an amphetamines test....
And? Baseball players have been using amphetamines for years. If I'm not mistaken, Hammerin' Hank admitted to using greenies.
That's why this whole this is laughable. There is no way to compare these eras. There never was an even playing field, so people need to get off of their high horses. Steroids are simply the latest item in a long line of methods of gaining advantage by baseball players. Aaron probably didn't have the option to take steroids. But Ruth never had the option to take the amphetamines that Aaron took. And Ruth's record is certainly not squeaky clean either; not only for the corked bat allegations, but because he played against a watered-down version of players since minorities weren't even allowed to play.
The playing field isn't even and never was. Take all these records with a grain of salt. Bonds didn't do it like Aaron, Aaron didn't do it like Ruth and Ruth wouldn't have done it like Ruth if all the great Negro League players were in the game. You don't have to hold Bonds' record in high regard...I don't. But I don't stand up on some pedestal and pretend that baseball was a pure sport before Barry Bonds came along.
I'm not going to get into that in this thread, I was simply refuting the statement that he has never failed a drug test.
RocketsDWM wrote: He failed an amphetamines test....
And? Baseball players have been using amphetamines for years. If I'm not mistaken, Hammerin' Hank admitted to using greenies.
That's why this whole this is laughable. There is no way to compare these eras. There never was an even playing field, so people need to get off of their high horses. Steroids are simply the latest item in a long line of methods of gaining advantage by baseball players. Aaron probably didn't have the option to take steroids. But Ruth never had the option to take the amphetamines that Aaron took. And Ruth's record is certainly not squeaky clean either; not only for the corked bat allegations, but because he played against a watered-down version of players since minorities weren't even allowed to play.
The playing field isn't even and never was. Take all these records with a grain of salt. Bonds didn't do it like Aaron, Aaron didn't do it like Ruth and Ruth wouldn't have done it like Ruth if all the great Negro League players were in the game. You don't have to hold Bonds' record in high regard...I don't. But I don't stand up on some pedestal and pretend that baseball was a pure sport before Barry Bonds came along.
I'm not going to get into that in this thread, I was simply refuting the statement that he has never failed a drug test.
Continue celebrating Bonds
OK he never failed a performance enhancing drug test. Since you obviously consider greenies to be an acceptable drug.
Go back to hating.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
I am somewhat annoyed when people immediately dismiss Bonds' record, just because of his connections with performance enhancing drugs. People are so quick to jump on him that they forget how unbelievably hard it is to accomplish what he did. Hitting that many homers that many seasons in a row is a testament to his ability and it is what makes him one of the greatest players to ever play this game. And when people talk about the eras being different, I agree. When Ruth was playing, there were no black players. When Aaron played, he admitted to using greenies. So I guess there's always been that element of an "unfair playing field."
But that being said, there is no way you can honestly say that Bonds didn't use performance enhancing drugs. There's so much evidence it's ridiculous, not to mention the fact that he ADMITTED that he used the cream and the clear! WHO CARES if he didn't know what he was doing, in track or cycling or the Olympics, if you are using something, they don't give a crap if you knew what you were doing. Plus his chemist told HBO that he didn't think there was any possible way he wouldn't have known what he was doing. Not to mention the fact that a man's hat and shoe size doesn't grow after the age of 30. Complain all you want about that's just speculation but seriously, stop to think about it for a second. You don't go through puberty twice.
Again, Bonds' accomplishment is certainly a feat. He's just a product of the Steroid Era. MLB and Selig (who else thinks it's funny to see Bud squirm on TV especially when we all know this is his fault) were absolutely pathetic throughout this whole deal, their testing is a joke... Bonds' got the help of performance enhancing drugs, but he's not the only one who did in his era and he shouldn't be singled out.
"Oh, that Lankford and McGee, the trio of 'em. They're a one-man wrecking crew."
It's kind of unfortunate that Bonds couldn't settle with being the 2nd or 3rd best HR hitter ever. He had to do whatever it took to be number 1. 33-49-73. how someone jumps 40 HR in a 3 year span is beyond comprehension and pretty much throws out the fact that he was clean. He still could have been sitting at 700 something homers though and that still would have been damn good.
Considering that this is a baseball forum, I think most of us can agree that it takes a lot more than just steroids to hit 756 home runs. Barry Bonds wasn't/isn't the only player to take use performance enhancing drugs, but he's the only player to draw 232 walks in a season and to reach 756 home runs in his career. Barry Bonds has performed at level that no other player in the game has performed at, and this makes him a special player.
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by manbearpig » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:42 pm 
