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How much do you value pitching?

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Postby josebach » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:50 pm

BigMusky wrote:you can always trade good hitting for a good pitcher, but the other way. That is a main reason you draft hitting. There are alot more pitchers that breakout from the waiver wire too.


Yeah, but I felt that this year that the hitters ranked in the 30-80 range were less bankable than years past so I concentrated more on pitching.
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Postby aclapsaddle » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:54 pm

I used to practically ignore pitching because it's volatility using middle to late round draft picks, set up guys, and the ww to put together a competitive staff. In the last two seasons I focused on pitching with about 50% of my resources and have won my league two years in a row. Except for tier one position players (eg Utley, Reyes, etc) I now think it's important to get good pitching. I look for durabilty and a good K per IP rate. The rest takes care of itself.
If you leave a link, I will look at yours. I will answer if I think my opinion can help.
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Postby Brade » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:10 pm

I've won a great percentage of my leagues by valuing pitching more than most people. When I win a league, I usually dominate the pitching stats. This year I was prepared to take Santana 2nd overall behind Pujols, but I had the 3rd pick and they were off the board, so I took A-Rod.

I managed to pick up Peavy, Smoltz, King Felix, Sabathia, and Schilling as my starters. Right now I'm in first place and I expect to finish there at the end of the season.
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Postby dmendro » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:26 pm

Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here and say what you value is not important. It's what the league values.

If you go into the draft thinking pitching is more valuable, and you draft santana the first round, and then follow up with Oswalt or carpenter the second round, and no other pitchers have gone, you just missed out on the top 18 or so hitters in baseball.

You have to play your draft. You are playing to beat the other managers, not some invisible roto number's goal.

It's like poker, you beat the player, not the cards.
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Postby frankadelic » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:43 pm

dmendro wrote:Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here and say what you value is not important. It's what the league values.
...
You have to play your draft. You are playing to beat the other managers, not some invisible roto number's goal.


I agree. League format pays a major role. So does dynamism in the draft. At any point in the draft, you can asses what talent remains and in which stat categories you can feasibly gain an edge.

This season, I had two major weaknesses after the 7 keeper rounds: OF and pitching. Most of the quality outfielders were gone, but the pitching categories were wide open. I emphasized pitching in rounds 8-12 and managed to build a solid roster of starters.
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Postby josebach » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:46 pm

dmendro wrote:Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here and say what you value is not important. It's what the league values.

If you go into the draft thinking pitching is more valuable, and you draft santana the first round, and then follow up with Oswalt or carpenter the second round, and no other pitchers have gone, you just missed out on the top 18 or so hitters in baseball.

You have to play your draft. You are playing to beat the other managers, not some invisible roto number's goal.

It's like poker, you beat the player, not the cards.


When does the league ever value something that you don't? Sure, the occasional person might punt a category, but generally speaking, doesn't everybody in the league have the same objective?

Sure, if you draft 11th in a 12 team league, you may modify your rankings slightly to accomodate for what the 12th team has already drafted, but overall this should have a very small impact on what your team looks like. If you're worrying about what your opponent is doing during the draft, you're worrying about the wrong thing. Besides, I don't know of any fantasy player worth his weight that would recommend taking three pitchers with their first three picks. :-?

Maybe I just missed your point.
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Postby RyeWhiskey » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:56 pm

I love pitching. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that I will absolutely dominate with my starters. In my 12 team keeper league I'm currently running:
Santana, Peavy, Haren, Kazmir, Hill, Maine, Gorz, Greinke (and Liriano to boot).

BUT, balance IS the key. Unlike some previous managers, I do not draft closers until late in the draft. The reason? Too uncertain. You have Nathan, KRod, and Ryan at the top. Rivera too. But then you are completely wasting a mid-round pick which could be used for a solid hitter or top starter.

So keep balance, but don't waste your pics on closers early. Focus on the best players.
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Postby TheGNUru » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:07 pm

I put a lot of stock in pitching compared to most. Most owners have Pitcher Phobia...so if you can effectively scout pitching you get a huge advantage.
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Postby Big Cat » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:28 pm

Yoda wrote:It's easier for a pitcher to get hurt. It's also easier to pick up a great pitcher than a hitter coming out of nowhere.


My two main philosophies for avoiding pitching early.
Ron Paul 2008
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Postby RAmst23 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:32 pm

josebach wrote:
dmendro wrote:Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here and say what you value is not important. It's what the league values.

If you go into the draft thinking pitching is more valuable, and you draft santana the first round, and then follow up with Oswalt or carpenter the second round, and no other pitchers have gone, you just missed out on the top 18 or so hitters in baseball.

You have to play your draft. You are playing to beat the other managers, not some invisible roto number's goal.

It's like poker, you beat the player, not the cards.


When does the league ever value something that you don't? Sure, the occasional person might punt a category, but generally speaking, doesn't everybody in the league have the same objective?

Sure, if you draft 11th in a 12 team league, you may modify your rankings slightly to accomodate for what the 12th team has already drafted, but overall this should have a very small impact on what your team looks like. If you're worrying about what your opponent is doing during the draft, you're worrying about the wrong thing. Besides, I don't know of any fantasy player worth his weight that would recommend taking three pitchers with their first three picks. :-?

Maybe I just missed your point.


I think you missed his point a little bit... He's saying you need to be flexible with your gameplan and adjust when adjustments are necessary. Though what I disagree with a little is your bit. I think it matters greatly what your opponents are doing. Sure you should have your own gameplan and methods. You say if you worry about your opponents, your worrying about the wrong thing. However, that's the whole basis of fantasy baseball. You're playing against other people and the stats their teams accumulate.

If your goal is to have alot of speed or saves, for example, other owners drafting these categories early affects your gameplan. It will cause you to adjust, either by drafting certain players earlier than you wanted to or altering plans altogether.

Anyway, I tend to lean towards better hitters when drafting. It's hard to predict wins and ERA with pitchers, which is 2 out of the 4 cats your evaluating. That's a rough percentage.
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