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Middle reliever strategy taken to logical conclusion

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Postby swyck » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:13 pm

j24jags wrote:The only problem is that it is critical to get as close to the limit as you can. If you don't get close to the IP maximum you'll get destroyed in wins and Ks. So say you do what you say and go with three starters. That's probably 600 innings. 1250 is the common max. so you still need 650 innings from relievers then. Most relievers only get 75-90 so you would need about 8 relievers with only three starters. You're better off with 5-6 starters and being selective with when to start the last few, then you only need 4 relievers.

If you run these number with 4 starters instead of 3 you get 800 IP from your SP, needing 450 from your RP - 5 would get you close. That would make for 9 pitchers which would fill up a 3sp, 3rp, 3 p roster (not an unusual starting configuration) without taking up bench spots. A 5th SP for spot starting and you have plenty of bench slots for hot bats and sleepers.

I hear everybody talking about needing to get those wins and k's, but some of these SPs at the end of the staff dont get you all that many wins and K's. What about that ERA and WHIP they destroy?

IMO if you can get 5 good sp I say go for it, 6 if you can, but if those end of staff pitchers hurt your rate cats MRs make a lot of sense. However I think 4 SP should be the minimum you go with in most configurations.

Of course I'm not really considering people like Lowe as someone I wouldnt want on my staff. I'm talking if you're considering Marquis or Suppan because no other SPs are available in a deeper league, I'll take the MRs instead.
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Postby JoeMoney19 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:03 am

swyck wrote:
j24jags wrote:The only problem is that it is critical to get as close to the limit as you can. If you don't get close to the IP maximum you'll get destroyed in wins and Ks. So say you do what you say and go with three starters. That's probably 600 innings. 1250 is the common max. so you still need 650 innings from relievers then. Most relievers only get 75-90 so you would need about 8 relievers with only three starters. You're better off with 5-6 starters and being selective with when to start the last few, then you only need 4 relievers.

If you run these number with 4 starters instead of 3 you get 800 IP from your SP, needing 450 from your RP - 5 would get you close. That would make for 9 pitchers which would fill up a 3sp, 3rp, 3 p roster (not an unusual starting configuration) without taking up bench spots. A 5th SP for spot starting and you have plenty of bench slots for hot bats and sleepers.

I hear everybody talking about needing to get those wins and k's, but some of these SPs at the end of the staff dont get you all that many wins and K's. What about that ERA and WHIP they destroy?

IMO if you can get 5 good sp I say go for it, 6 if you can, but if those end of staff pitchers hurt your rate cats MRs make a lot of sense. However I think 4 SP should be the minimum you go with in most configurations.

Of course I'm not really considering people like Lowe as someone I wouldnt want on my staff. I'm talking if you're considering Marquis or Suppan because no other SPs are available in a deeper league, I'll take the MRs instead.


that's more along the lines of my question about this tactic...where do you draw the line as far as worthy starters? do guys like patterson, bush, olsen, etc. deserve to be on the waiver wire with their upside?
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Postby hot4tx » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:27 am

Of course there's balance in all things, but in roto especially I'd rather have a good MRP than a fantasy #4 or #5 SP any day. Now I understand having a young Matt Cain type before they've become a big name as a potential break-out pitcher, and I think those players are different than a Tim Hudson-type veteran who when they're right they still don't give you the K's or W's per inning that a good MRP will.

Also the list of quality MRPs is a lot longer than you think...
S Shields
Brotxon
Zumaya
C Meredith
M Gonzalez
R Soriano
Dan Wheeler
S Linebrink
J Duscherer
B Howry
P Neshek
J Crain
J Rincon

Can all be counted on to give you better ERA, WHIP, K/9 and usually better W/9 than fantasy #4 and #5 starters.

Also guys like H Carrasco, C Sampson, O Villireal, A Heilman can be SP/RP in alot of leagues but have better stats (when not starting) than most of the #4 and #5 starters you'll find.

However, you do have to weight starter vs relievers and how valuable your roster spots are (depending on size of the league, roster depths, and who's available on the FA wire). Just saying "you should always take MRPs" as a rule doesn't work. You have to be able to look at your leagues format and determine if this is a good strategy for you.
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Postby The Loveable Losers » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:38 am

If we're talking standard Yahoo settings with the 1250 max ip then I completely agree with you. I always go with an exact 4 SP draft in those leagues with 5-6 relievers (as many closers as I can get at a reasonable point in the draft with MR's filling in the rest). Figure about 70ip on average from the relievers (especially if you're light on the closers and heavy on the mr's) and you're getting about 350ip from those guys. That leaves 900ip to get from the 4 starters or 225ip a piece. You might fall a bit short there but that can be augmented by a mid-season SP pickup or with spot starts on very favorable match-ups.
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