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sox vs. yanks

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sox vs. yanks

Postby timkell » Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:31 pm

I've seen a lot of Sox fans on this board make statements like, "There's no way Yankee fans can deny that the Sox are a better team than the Yanks after all these deals." etc, etc.

I want to hear what everyone out there thinks. I don't think this is true at all. What do you all think?

Yanks SPs: Sox SPs:
Brown Schilling
Mussina Pedro
Vazquez Lowe
Contreras Wakefield
Lieber/Wells Kim

I don't know about you guys, but I would take the bottom three Yankees starters any day over the bottom three Sox starters. Not saying that Lowe, Wakefield, Kim is terrible, but I like Vazquez a bit better than Lowe, I like Contreras over Wakefield (no matter what he did in the playoffs), and I like ANYONE over Kim.

Yanks Offense: Sox offense:
Posada Varitek
Giambi Millar
Soriano Walker
Jeter Nomar
Boone Mueller
Matsui Ramirez
Lofton Damon
Sheffield Nixon
Williams Ortiz

Closer:
Rivera Foulke

Clear winners for Sox: Nomar, Ramirez (who both happen to be pretty ticked off right now)

Clear winners for Yanks: Posada, Giambi, Soriano, Sheffield

This offseason, the Yanks improved two starting pitcher positions by replacing Pettite and Clemens with Brown and Vazquez. They also dramatically improved right field, their only glaring weakness last year. On top of that, they bolstered a bullpen that had issues but was still way better than the Sox by getting Tom Gordon.

On the other side, the Sox dramatically improved one starting pitcher position and the closer position by getting Schilling and Foulke (and, BTW, I'd still rather have Rivera than Foulke anyday). Other than that, they haven't improved their offense at all. If they get Arod and Magglio, they replace their two best offensive players with two new best offensive players. Sure, an upgrade, but how significant?

Rob Neyer also points out that four players for the Sox last year had their best career years ever. That will not happen again:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=1690019

The Yanks offense is better right now, IMO. The Yankees have a better starting five, but the top two for Boston makes the staff's basically equal, and the Yanks have a better bullpen.

Where is the evidence that the Sox are clearly a better team now?
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Postby trevisc » Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:37 pm

wow! It's amazing what a little ole thing like $200 million can buy you!
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Postby Jivedude » Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:52 pm

The Yankees are going to be an old, creaky, injury prone team with Brown, Sheffield, Williams, Giambi etc.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:02 pm

Pity the poor Red Sox, my heart bleeds they only have what a 120 million dollar payroll...ah poor guys.



That said, add to the clear Red Sox winners: Mueller over Aaron "Swing and a miss, low and away, my bat is really slow" Boone. Aaron Boone is horrible.


As to clearly better...compared to last year's team, it is obvious that both teams are better.

Boston:
Schilling over John Burkett is quite a step up. Foulke over Kim is too.

Yanks:
Greatly improved Bullpen
Sheffield over K. Garcia/Mondesi is a huge improvement
NJ for all the hype was nothing special last season and Lofton will at least equal NJ's value to the team in 2004.
Clemens and Pettitte gone...Vaz and Brown in is certainly no worse for the regular season (Playoffs TBD).
Leiber/Wells over The gutless Wonder Weaver can only be an improvement in the 5th spot.
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Postby Greenrider » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:14 pm

Who cares which one is the paper tiger is? The only way to settle it is to play the games ;-D
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Postby pkarr5000 » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:22 pm

he has a good point. nomar and manny, their two best offensive weapons have to be down now. that says a lot. look at what miggy did last year compared to the year before when his team wanted him
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Postby mikcou » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:39 pm

right now I think I would take anyone over Lieber... The guy is old and hasnt pitched in 2 years and is coming off major arm surgery. Kim probably will be traded anyway and Arroyo will get a chance to start...
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Postby Madison » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:40 pm

Another Sox vs. Yanks debate!? :-B I hadn't seen one of these in awhile. Lol. :-b

Here's the solution: Have Steinbrenner and Epstein call Selig and demand that both teams play each other 162 times next season. That should end the debate on which team is better next year. ;-)
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Postby mikcou » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:40 pm

Madison wrote:Another Sox vs. Yanks debate!? :-B I hadn't seen one of these in awhile. Lol. :-b

Here's the solution: Have Steinbrenner and Epstein call Selig and demand that both teams play each other 162 times next season. That should end the debate on which team is better next year. ;-)


lol
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Postby Greenrider » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:42 pm

pkarr5000 wrote:he has a good point. nomar and manny, their two best offensive weapons have to be down now. that says a lot. look at what miggy did last year compared to the year before when his team wanted him


I'm not sure I buy this...generally, the big myth that everyone subscribes to is that players play harder in their contract years, and while I think it's a fallacy, stating the exact opposite is hardly any more accurate.

Basically, there's no evidence whatsoever of contract status impacting player performance one way or another.
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