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Soriano Vs. Ichiro (career) Who is the better player?

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Postby Tavish » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:24 am

Ender wrote:Those RC stats are highly dubious so when two players are close using them I can't give either the advantage. I think Soriano is a slightly better hitter but Suzuki is a better baserunner and a much better fielder so he's the better player.


Why are those RC stats highly dubious?
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Postby thedude » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:48 am

Ichiro career adjusted OPS+ 119.
Soriano career adjusted OPS+ 115.

Ichiro is better with the bat.

If you also include the fact that Ichiro averages 5 more steals a season with the same number of CS and is a much better defender, you get to the conclusion that Ichiro is a better player.
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Postby Ender » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:12 am

Tavish wrote:
Ender wrote:Those RC stats are highly dubious so when two players are close using them I can't give either the advantage. I think Soriano is a slightly better hitter but Suzuki is a better baserunner and a much better fielder so he's the better player.


Why are those RC stats highly dubious?


RC/27 can include things like clutch hitting which I'm not a big fan of, it also sometimes includes some pretty poorly done park adjustments.

There are also more than 20 versions of the RC stat and you never can be sure which one people are using.
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Postby Fantasy Guru » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:37 pm

Who is the better baseball player?

Ichiro, and it's not close.

Soriano is good at two things: Hitting it out, and stealing when he gets on. He had, what, 22 outfield assists, but my boy Manny led the league once, and no one says he should win a gold glove.

At one point, Soriano was mocked for his finely crafted skill of striking out all the time. But I guess now, that's just Soriano being Soriano.

I would much rather have Soriano in fantasy, but there's much more to real life.

As we know, Ichiro is one of the better fielders in the majors, and can just plain hit. If Soriano could learn a few lessons from Ichiro, I think we would have a new 1st overall fantasy player.
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Postby jealousblues » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:01 pm

tgalv wrote:just my opinion !+)

it's not really the best comparison because they aren't the same type of player


thats a great point
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Postby looptid » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:20 pm

I was surprised by some of the advanced metrics. I figured, with Ichiro being such a singles hitter, Soriano would be the better batter.

Career WARP*
Ichiro (957 Games) - 55.3
Soriano (961 Games) - 44.4

Man, I love baseball. I'm surprised by things all the time.

*Includes crude fielding metrics.
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Postby jealousblues » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:28 pm

WARP=Wins Above Replacement Player?
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Postby looptid » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:44 pm

Correct.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:48 pm

Ender wrote:
Tavish wrote:
Ender wrote:Those RC stats are highly dubious so when two players are close using them I can't give either the advantage. I think Soriano is a slightly better hitter but Suzuki is a better baserunner and a much better fielder so he's the better player.


Why are those RC stats highly dubious?


RC/27 can include things like clutch hitting which I'm not a big fan of, it also sometimes includes some pretty poorly done park adjustments.

There are also more than 20 versions of the RC stat and you never can be sure which one people are using.


These are from baseball-reference using the basic simple formula.
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Postby eamrhein » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:03 pm

The runs argument is stupid, because RUNs are created by an entire team, not by a single player and Soriano has played for teams that score more runs.

I think we can agree that Ichiro is the better fielder, so The only thing to determine is who is the better hitter. The only way to look at that is to look at their career average OPS and OBP. They are close, but I feel that Ichiro has the advantage because has a 50 point lead in OBP, which makes it seem to me that Ichiro is the better player.
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