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Soriano Vs. Ichiro (career) Who is the better player?

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Soriano Vs. Ichiro (career) Who is the better player?

Postby jealousblues » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:20 am

So Im on a Cardinals board and someone was discussing Ichiro and somehow Soriano was brought up.
Everyone started saying how much better Ichiro was and Soriano could never be as good (a big part of the arguement was that Ichiro was an MVP)
He was my arguement for Soriano (or at least it not being Hugely in favor of Ichiro)

is this a reletively sound arguement?

Whats everyones opinion on this arguement. I know all you guys here are much more knowledgable than me but here was my stab at it:



****************************

"I know this isnt the best way to do this but im lazy and its easy but go to espns stat pages

Soriano

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=3993

Ichiro

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=4570


and it has a thing that compiles an "average season" for them. Its neat for these two because its based on approx about the same time:
5.93 years for soriano, and 5.91 for ichiro

Runs:
Ichiro:114
Soriano:105

Hits
Ichiro:229
Soriano:184

Doubles:
Ichiro:26
Soriano:40

Triples:
Ichiro:8
Soriano:3

HR:
Ichiro:10
Soriano:35

RBI:
Ichiro:61
Soriano:94

BB:
Ichiro:47
Soriano:38

SO
Ichiro:65
Soriano:140

SB
Ichiro:40
Soriano:35

CS 10 both

AVG
ichiro .331
soriano:280

OBP:
Ichiro:.376
Soriano:.325

SLG
Ichiro: .438
Soriano: .510

OPS
Ichiro: .814
Soriano: .835



now, Soriano usually played for better teams, but the M's have been good in the past too.

It just looks like Ichiro hits for good average (way better than soriano) but he doesnt really score more runs, and doesnt knock in more.
Soriano gets on base less, but scores about the same, has much more power, and knocks in more. ( I know they dont have the same role [though Soriano has lead off] but Soriano has way better HR and RBI, and pretty close for runs scored)
For what its worth they both walk the same but Soriano K's much more.
They both steal about the same bases, but Soriano hits more doubles.
if you look at the OPS Soriano's on base weakness is more than made up by his slugging.
JMO
dont know how representitive that is.

just by this I dont see how you can say "OMG Ichiro is sooo much better"
"
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Postby tgalv » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:51 am

ichiro is better in real life but not fantasy baseball
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Postby jealousblues » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:09 am

is there something wrong with my analysis?

It doesnt LOOK like Ichiro is better (at least to me). I unfortunatly never get to see Seattle play (since im in St. Louis).

I know, Soriano K's a lot and isnt known for his D.

But Ive heard people say Ichiro never dives or puts his body on the line for the team.
Ive also just read he is a "me-first" type player, and doesnt do situational hitting well. Now that was one guys opinion. I have no clue if thats accurate or not.
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Postby tgalv » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:23 am

ichiro is one of the best outfielders in the game.

soriano is a liability at second which is why he doesn't play there anymore. i think describing his outfield play as "nothing special" might be giving him the benefit of the doubt.

i'd rather have ichiro if i was fielding a team.
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Postby jealousblues » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:26 am

I dont know, Soriano has only played in the OF for one year...learning on the job.
He did have a lot of assists (I know thats not the best way to value him) I dont know if that means he was good, or more people just ran on him.

I wish I could find range stats and all that. I know he is no top defender, but I wouldnt bet against him. He is athletic and fast.

huh, here I am defending a Cub. Whats wrong with me?
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Postby tgalv » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:42 am

just my opinion !+)

it's not really the best comparison because they aren't the same type of player
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Postby orange12 » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:02 am

Ichiro and Soriano are two totally different types of players so its hard to compare.

I think Soriano has Ichiro beat on raw talent and athleticism. Very few hitters are gifted with both power and incredible speed like Soriano. Also, the fact that he can transition from 2B to the OF seamlessly is a testament to his athletic abilities. Of course Ichiro isn't any kind of slouch athletically either, but put it this way: if I could NOT see into the future and had to choose between these two when they were of prospect age, I would take Soriano 10 out of 10 ten times based on raw talent alone.

But what Ichiro excels at over just about every major leaguer outside of maybe a handful in the elite is the refinement of his craft. I don't think there's an active player who understands the role of a lead-off hitter better than Ichiro. Sure, there will be the speedier (Reyes) or the more powerful (Sizemore), but Ichiro has them all beat on refinement. Everything about his style, from his flawless bunts to his uncanny base stealing instinct, shows a level of dedication and understanding in the art of leading off that I can safely say no one in baseball right now has achieved. And this is before we even get to the same level of refinement he exhibits in his defense.

If I had to pick one over the other, I would say Ichiro is the better player. He doesn't do everything, but in what he does, he's as consistently the best as they come.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:43 am

tgalv wrote:just my opinion !+)

it's not really the best comparison because they aren't the same type of player


The job of every hitter is to create runs.

Career rc/27

Ichiro 6.31
Soriano 5.84

BRAA batting runs above average

Ichiro 140
Soriano 90

FRAA fielding runs above average

Ichiro 58
Soriano -38

Ichiro is the better hitter by a small margin, but is a better defensive player by a large margin.

Ichiro is better irl.
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Postby Ender » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:19 am

Those RC stats are highly dubious so when two players are close using them I can't give either the advantage. I think Soriano is a slightly better hitter but Suzuki is a better baserunner and a much better fielder so he's the better player.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:23 am

If I were a pitcher, I would think that I'd rather face Soriano who, at least as his K #s suggest, doesn't control the zone as well. At the same time, crazy free swingers can reach out and hit garbage over the fence. Ichiro's defense gives him the edge but I am inclined to agree that they are too close to call...
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