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I have the feeling Boston's playing Texas for a fool

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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:58 pm

Madison wrote:Wow. 8-o

That's about all I can say.

Was Texas in trouble at the end of the year? No, and they have cut payroll by $30 million. I don't get how people think that they are in trouble. A month or two ago the Rangers had zero interest in trading Arod. Now because of all the talk of a deal, they are in trouble if they don't trade Arod? That makes no sense at all.

As to an unhappy Arod, he's one of the most professional athletes out there, so there is no concern about him going out and doing his job each and every single day.

Amazing how much things get twisted over trade talks.

Transmogrifier wrote:he wants a pitcher, plus $25 million to boot? Right. The Sox will walk away form that.


I said the Sox would be dumb to take that deal a month ago and a few people said I was way off base. Interesting............


Is this some reference to me? I hope not, because my stance all along is that I'm in favor of this deal and will even toss in prospects, but don't think we should pay a dime of Manny's salary. However, if Arod wants to reduce to cover what Hicks is demanding, I'm fine with that.

Madison wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:Hicks needs this more than the Sox,


I agree that the trade would probably be more beneficial to the Rangers than the Sox. Both teams would be better if it happened though. :-)


Of course. No argument here.

Madison wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I totally agree. If the deal doesn't happen then Boston and Texas have some serious problems on their hands.


How? Boston still has a contending team, and Nomar/Manny will do their jobs every day. Arod will do his job, and the Rangers will be like last year. All hit, no pitch. The way the division is shaping up though, they might not finish last this year. ;-)



I think the Rangers could suffer more than the Sox if this falls through. I think Manny, Nomar and Arod will all play up to their abilities--because Nomar and Arod are classy professionals and Manny is Mr. Oblivious--but the fact that Arod is the clubhouse leader could be a big issue. The young guys on that team look up to him, and how might it affect the clubhouse when Arod has been so public about leaving? It could get tenuous.

Madison wrote:
Nsulham wrote:now he's trying to do a 180 and make suckers of the Red Sox.


How is he trying to make "suckers" out of the Sox? Hicks is trading away the best player in baseball and getting stuck with an extra year of guaranteed pay in the process. He's also not saving that much money by trading Arod, contrary to popular belief. Manny gets $20, Arod gets $25. Arod's a free agent in 4 years if he's unhappy, Manny's guaranteed for 5 more years. No sense in letting himself just "give away" the best player in baseball for nothing.


Madison, Madison, Madison--I've heard this argument too much about guaranteed money. You have to look at Arod's contract as guaranteed, too, as there's no way Arod would really walk away from that much money. You would think that getting one of the best RBI men in baseball, plus some $80 million in payroll relief, plus our top pitching prospect (Lester) would be enough. If Hicks continues to insist on $25 million, this deal is in trouble. Let's see how hardheaded he is.
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Postby bell » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:59 pm

Madison wrote:Arod's a free agent in 4 years if he's unhappy, Manny's guaranteed for 5 more years.

You honestly think A-rod would void his contract come four years? Happy or unhappy, the devil sitting on his shoulder would likely speak louder than the angel sitting on the other shoulder.
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Postby Madison » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:11 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:Is this some reference to me? I hope not, because my stance all along is that I'm in favor of this deal and will even toss in prospects, but don't think we should pay a dime of Manny's salary. However, if Arod wants to reduce to cover what Hicks is demanding, I'm fine with that.


No, not a referance to you. ;-) You agreed with me when I said that the Sox wouldn't be dumb enough to kick part of Manny's salary. There were others that thought differently though.



Transmogrifier wrote:Madison, Madison, Madison--I've heard this argument too much about guaranteed money. You have to look at Arod's contract as guaranteed, too, as there's no way Arod would really walk away from that much money.


Bell wrote:You honestly think A-rod would void his contract come four years? Happy or unhappy, the devil sitting on his shoulder would likely speak louder than the angel sitting on the other shoulder.


Guys, read the articles. Arod's already giving up the last three years to make this deal happen. Not really giving them up completely, but taking a pretty good pay cut in order to get the deal done now. You don't think that 4 more years of unhappiness would cause him to leave? Think again. If he's willing to give up as much as he is now, he would give up even more 4 years from now.
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Postby trevisc » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:13 pm

it's a mute point if the deal doesn't get done. He'll just be MVP again next year!
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Postby nsulham » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:22 pm

All I know is from what I've heard and read, Hicks wants Boston to not only take on A-Rod's contract but also wants Manny's contract subsidized, PLUS a pitcher.

It's not like he's getting some schlub player that he has to ask for this joke of an offer. Manny's a perennial 100 RBI, bona fide middle of the order threat. Not exactly chopped liver.

He should be happy with Boston taking A-Rod's contract, plus the pitcher they'll acquire from Boston and use the excess money to get himself some pitching.
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Postby bell » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:42 pm

Madison wrote:Guys, read the articles. Arod's already giving up the last three years to make this deal happen. Not really giving them up completely, but taking a pretty good pay cut in order to get the deal done now. You don't think that 4 more years of unhappiness would cause him to leave? Think again. If he's willing to give up as much as he is now, he would give up even more 4 years from now.

Here's what I'm reading...
Rodriguez's contract has seven years and $179 million remaining on it

Boras told The Associated Press Thursday that the proposal would have cost his client $28 million off the richest contract in sports history, according to the team's evaluation -- though the union estimated that loss to be $30 million.

So take that $30 mil off of the total $179 mil. $149 mi over seven years is $21.3 mil per year. That's still more than what he would get offered four years down the road when he could possibly void his contract. And he'll also be four years older, which could prove to be somewhat of a barrier for a long-term, high-priced contract.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic in thinking A-rod is making the leap to Boston because he foresees them as one of two teams to do whatever it takes to put a contender on the field year in and year out for more than the next four years--or at least until the Red Sox look into their pants pockets to find they have no more nickels.

I should add that I have been out of town for the past few days, so what I'm reading regarding the trade may not be up-to-date.
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