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Steinbrenner: Was he always like this

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Steinbrenner: Was he always like this

Postby mtarail » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:15 pm

So, I grew up in the 80's and after that early 80's World Series against the Dodgers I remember the Yankees as a consistently mediocre squad. If anything, Steinbrenner was simply known as the jackass who went through a record # of managers in a year.

Fast-forward to the mid-late 90's and we have a near-dynasty. But as good as those teams were, they weren't superstar-packed liked the current version is, or as much as the last 2 years have been. Tino and O'Neill, etc were great in their prime, but not superstars. So my question is: did Steinbrenner always shell out $ like this for talent but had bad GM's in the 80's or is this fairly new string of free agent signings and trades, starting with Giambi deal, a new direction for Steinbrenner? (And if that's the case, why now and not before? Is he just more scared of the Red Sox now or what?)
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Postby Kwaziwampo » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:23 pm

He has ALWAYS been like this unfortunately. A few years back...
From the Daily News:

(Commisioner) Vincent suspended Steinbrenner "permanently" from the game after news surfaced that the Yankee owner had paid a Bronx gambler named Howard Spira to find "damaging information" about Dave Winfield.

This gave time for management to run the team correctly. The name mistake George has always made is trading away the farm system for aging vets. Giambi, et all doesn't seem like it hurts since he's a FA, but most of the time you have to give up a draft pick when you do that, and this takes its toll over time.

The good Yankee teams were built from the farm, without exception. The team he bought i the 70's won championships because it was pretty much in tact (and a different era).

What we're seeing now is just a culmination, I believe of those years of frustration when others ran the team and were successful. Once Bob Watson left, and Cashman was installed, it's been downhill since it's been him pulling the strings. Cashman didn't want Sheffield, and I think a lot of Yankee fans would agree with this.

So what do we have in 5 years? Vasquez, Jeter, Soriano (hopefully), Matsui, and that's it. We have no farm system anymore, it's been traded. We have perhaps 2 legit prospects to me in the whole system.

Whether it's Jay Buhner then, or now, Kevin Brown, Steinbrenner has made horrible trades. The list of original 80's players in our farm system is too painful to bring up, but there were many superstars that were traded away.

If you follow Steinbrenners moves when he was in power, almost all of them have been bad, with the exception of Winfield, and a choice few others.

As a Yankee fan...I hope we can stop the madness of King George. You cannot win championships this way, unless your name ryhmes with Bayne Myzenga.
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Postby timkell » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:54 pm

Good summary, Kwazi.

Yep, the best thing that ever happened to the Yankees was when Vincent suspended George.

For a while, I thought that made him learn his lesson, and he continued to defer to Cashman, etc, albeit after stern begging and pleading, on baseball decisions.

With every year since 1996, though, he's moved closer and closer to his overpriced veteran obsession of the 80s.

Cashman's definitely going to leave after this year, as are Torre and Stottlemyre. He'll be left with nothing but yes men. The next five years look frustrating.
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Postby Erboes » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:59 pm

George was like this when he was running American Shipbuilding here in Cleveland. My father-in-law worked for him before anyone had ever heard of him and said he was just as much of a nut.

As an aside, how many of you guys know that he tried to buy the Indians, his offer was accepted, but then the owner changed his mind and sold it to a guy who didn't have a buck to his name? As a consolation, he put in a bid for the Yankees a year or two later. Imagine how much history would have changed if that deal went through?
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Postby mtarail » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:45 pm

Kwazi (or Timkell), (or other Yankee fans):

You mentioned superstar farm talent that was traded away for old players. Since I'm new to Yankee history, please humor me and run off a list of the star farm talent that never played in Yankee jerseys as major leaguers (or didn't play long enough to make a name for themselves.)
Bluto: Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
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Postby Jivedude » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:55 pm

mtarail wrote:Kwazi (or Timkell), (or other Yankee fans):

You mentioned superstar farm talent that was traded away for old players. Since I'm new to Yankee history, please humor me and run off a list of the star farm talent that never played in Yankee jerseys as major leaguers (or didn't play long enough to make a name for themselves.)


Well, Jay Buhner for one.
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Postby mtarail » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:28 am

If Jay Buhner is at the top of the list of farm talent lost to other teams then the Yanks can quietly go to the back of the line for crying about lost farm talent. Anybody else?
Bluto: Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
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Postby Jivedude » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:35 am

mtarail wrote:If Jay Buhner is at the top of the list of farm talent lost to other teams then the Yanks can quietly go to the back of the line for crying about lost farm talent. Anybody else?


Well I know they had Jose Rijo and Al Leiter. That's all I can think of off the top of my head, not being a Yankee fan.
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Postby mtarail » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:46 am

Timkell and Kwaz, I hope the guys that "jivedude" mentioned aren't the ones that were on the tip of your tongue. If so, I'd recommend that you take a look at the lost talent from the Expo's farm system before complaining.

Now, any other stars from the Yankees farm system?
Bluto: Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
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Postby timkell » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:10 am

Mtarail,

I remember finding out that tons of prominent players were former Yankee prospects, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. That wasn't my point anyway, but I do believe it's pretty valid.

I'll do some research and get back to you.
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