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It's official: Pettitte to Astros

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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:38 pm

Lofunzo wrote:What gets me is what are Sheff's other options? There aren't many.
This is an excellent point. ;-D
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Postby Madison » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:46 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:What gets me is what are Sheff's other options? There aren't many.
This is an excellent point. ;-D


Back to Atlanta is the leading possibility.
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Postby tlef316 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:52 pm

ive been a huge pettite fan ever since he came up. i wish him well in houston although im disapointed he chose to leave. that being said, petttite just dropped at least 1 tier in the pitcher rankings. houston's ballpark is a tiny little bandbox and he will have to learn all new hitters. andy wont win 15 and his ERA will be over 4.

get ready for Mt. Steinbrenner to erupt!!
welcome home andy
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Postby Transmogrifier » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:52 pm

Madison wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:What gets me is what are Sheff's other options? There aren't many.
This is an excellent point. ;-D


Back to Atlanta is the leading possibility.


Mad, they didn't offer him arbitration; he can't go back till May 1, if I'm not mistaken.

And, I still see Sheff in pinstripes.
I'm back. Sorta.

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Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
Madison wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:What gets me is what are Sheff's other options? There aren't many.
This is an excellent point. ;-D


Back to Atlanta is the leading possibility.


Mad, they didn't offer him arbitration; he can't go back till May 1, if I'm not mistaken.

And, I still see Sheff in pinstripes.


That's right ATL didn't offer. I think Shef will be a Yankee too but if he is trying to squeeze Steinbrenner for more money, he doesn't have any leverage.
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:40 am

Lofunzo wrote:On another note.......Goodbye, Andy. I will miss all that you gave us and wish you well in Houston. :~(
I will also continue to defend you to Hootie. He is just an angry numbers-cruncher who is mad that his team did nothing with that great regular season of a few years ago. :-D


Angry? <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif> Mad? Nah. A 116 win season, is pretty special, ring or not. Not even the great NYY can claim a 116 win season. ;-)
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:46 am

HOOTIE wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:On another note.......Goodbye, Andy. I will miss all that you gave us and wish you well in Houston. :~(
I will also continue to defend you to Hootie. He is just an angry numbers-cruncher who is mad that his team did nothing with that great regular season of a few years ago. :-D


Angry? <img src=/forums/images/smiles/kiss.gif> Mad? Nah. A 116 win season, is pretty special, ring or not. Not even the great NYY can claim a 116 win season. ;-)


I bet that you'd trade that season for a ring. 8-o

On a serious note, I do know that you love to look at the numbers. If memory serves, the Astros just got a pitcher who is the only in history to record 12 wins in each of his first 9 seasons. While wins are also an indication of the team, there have also been some pitchers on great teams who haven't done it. If he was truly an average pitcher as you may claim, then I'm sure that, in the history of baseball, someone else would have done it.

1 thing that has been overlooked is his effect on the young Astros staff. He learned an amazing workout program from Clemens and will be happy to pass it along. I'm sure that Oswalt, in particular, could use another program to help avoid groin problems in the future.
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Postby HOOTIE » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:17 am

Lofunzo wrote:
I bet that you'd trade that season for a ring. 8-o

On a serious note, I do know that you love to look at the numbers. If memory serves, the Astros just got a pitcher who is the only in history to record 12 wins in each of his first 9 seasons. While wins are also an indication of the team, there have also been some pitchers on great teams who haven't done it. If he was truly an average pitcher as you may claim, then I'm sure that, in the history of baseball, someone else would have done it.


Anyone would take a ring 1st, of course.

I think you misunderstood my feelings on Pettitte. I never called him average. I have said he's a bit overrated. His career era+ of 117 shows he's above average (100). Andy had a nice run, especially in wins. 95 was his rookie season, basically the beginning of NY dynasty, so he had many chances to win. I have posted his very abnormal run support before, showing that that was a big part.
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Postby Lofunzo » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:53 am

HOOTIE wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
I bet that you'd trade that season for a ring. 8-o

On a serious note, I do know that you love to look at the numbers. If memory serves, the Astros just got a pitcher who is the only in history to record 12 wins in each of his first 9 seasons. While wins are also an indication of the team, there have also been some pitchers on great teams who haven't done it. If he was truly an average pitcher as you may claim, then I'm sure that, in the history of baseball, someone else would have done it.


Anyone would take a ring 1st, of course.

I think you misunderstood my feelings on Pettitte. I never called him average. I have said he's a bit overrated. His career era+ of 117 shows he's above average (100). Andy had a nice run, especially in wins. 95 was his rookie season, basically the beginning of NY dynasty, so he had many chances to win. I have posted his very abnormal run support before, showing that that was a big part.


O.K. I'm with you now. Can I offer some insight into this? First, he may appear to be overrated to an outsider (and by outsider, I mean a non Yanks fan). I have never claimed that he is great. I wouldn't even call him a #1. I would definitely call him a #2, though. Solid at that. I see stories about him recently which say that the Astros just got their ace. That, I question. His heart and big game efforts, I do not. People remember his stinkers and so do I. I also remember the 3 times this postseason where he bailed the Yanks out of 1-0 series holes. I also remember the game that he threw in Game 6 of the World Series. Most of the time, he wins the game. Beckett was better. That's it. He definitely pitched well enough to win.

I have also seen people wonder why he gets all of the love from Yankees fans. I can only speak for myself but there are a few reasons. First, he has been a very good pitcher over the years. Second, with all of the constant talk about the Yanks always getting FA's for their team, he was a homegrown talent and a good 1 at that. Third, he is a super nice guy who never misrepresented the team. He is class. Fourth, he is a (now diminishing) representative of the cohesive engine that was the 90's Yankees. People say it's Jeter's team (although George might disagree) but 2 of the images that I see is either Pettitte on the mound on opening day in snow showers or Pettitte with his cap pulled down. I don't know what it is about the guy. I'm sure that we all have players that we really liked for whatever reason. He is 1 of those guys. I am really sad to see him go. Not only the pitcher but the man.

I see so many similarities of these Yankees to older teams put together with a cast of characters. When Torre and Stottlemyre are gone, it will get even crazier. Cashman will follow. I wish that George would realize that the 90's teams wouldn't have been there if not for his forced exile where the baseball people were allowed to do their jobs. He is too much of an egomaniac to see that. I love an owner that loves to win so much that he will do whatever it takes but he is too much of the extreme. I pray for Sox fans that their owner doesn't try to match his maniacal ways. I am 99.9% sure that the reason that he doesn't like Pettitte is because he is a remnant from his exile days. He never warmed up to him, for whatever reason. I'm sure this is why. I find it so strange that they would diss him like this. They claim that they didn't want to go 4 years and only offered 3. Since when do they let the $$ or another year affect getting someone that they really want? I would have rather them not offer him anything than give him a poor offer and then spin why they did it. I also think that it is pitiful that Steinbrenner conveniently lifted the gag order today. How convenient? He wants Cashman and everyone else to be a spin doctor and explain what happened rather than taking the heat.

Others might not realize the significance of this but this is a sad day in Yankeeland.

Sorry for the rant, Hootie. This has been 1 crazy day. 8-o
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Postby wrveres » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:28 am

Neither the Yankees nor the Red Sox made the late pushes to sign="rotoworld" Andy Pettitte that have been reported. The Yankees did offer Pettitte $39 million million over three years, but because they were concerned about his elbow, it was really a two-year deal with a vesting option. The Red Sox firmly dismissed reports that they came in with a four-year, $52 million offer to Pettitte at the end. They did make an offer in that range prior to acquiring Curt Schilling, but it was declined weeks ago
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