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Pettite is an Astro

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Postby Gang Green » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:55 pm

Look at the stats any way you want. Pettitte is tied with Smoltz for most career postseason victories. With the Yanks down 1-0 in series to the Twins, BoSox and Marlins this year, he won pivotal Game 2 for them in each situation. The Yankees have won 4 World Championships in which he has played a key role in each one. He is one of the most popular Yankees. Not every star can handle NY. Pettitte easily can and does. He keeps himself in great shape. He is now, IMO, a great pitcher. Why? If you've really followed Pettitte, you will know that he used to get himself in trouble by trying to be a power pitcher when he is not a power pitcher. He also used to solely rely on the cutter to get people out. He now mixes up his pitches quite well. Ask the Red Sox, they said throughout the ALCS that the difference with Andy Pettitte this year is that they never knew what pitch was coming from him. He also has matured to the point will he will not try to overpower people. Pettitte has 4 or 5 really strong years left. If he leaves, George will have egg on his face for a long time.
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Postby timkell » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:11 pm

He is now, IMO, a great pitcher.


Yes, he is a great pitcher, but he's not one of the top ten pitchers in baseball.

Quick, of the top of my head, in no particular order...
Halladay
Unit
Schilling
Pedro
Mulder
Prior
Hudson
Mussina
Oswalt
Schmidt

...are all better than Pettite. And you can name more. Only aces are worth 15 million.

He's maybe worth 11 million because he's a lefty. Is that so bad?

Yeah, he was awesome in the playoffs, but he'll still be Andy Pettite next year, which means he's a damn fine starting pitcher, but he's no staff ace.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:14 pm

The only reason that we are discussing how much he is worth is because of the Yankees. He is worth more to them than anyone else. No matter what the stats say, he has proven that he can get the job done in NY and in big spots in NY. Not all pitchers can say that. That is why I want them to sign him and will be sad to see him go.
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Postby joshheines » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:27 pm

Gang Green wrote:Look at the stats any way you want. Pettitte is tied with Smoltz for most career postseason victories. With the Yanks down 1-0 in series to the Twins, BoSox and Marlins this year, he won pivotal Game 2 for them in each situation. The Yankees have won 4 World Championships in which he has played a key role in each one. He is one of the most popular Yankees. Not every star can handle NY. Pettitte easily can and does. He keeps himself in great shape. He is now, IMO, a great pitcher. Why? If you've really followed Pettitte, you will know that he used to get himself in trouble by trying to be a power pitcher when he is not a power pitcher. He also used to solely rely on the cutter to get people out. He now mixes up his pitches quite well. Ask the Red Sox, they said throughout the ALCS that the difference with Andy Pettitte this year is that they never knew what pitch was coming from him. He also has matured to the point will he will not try to overpower people. Pettitte has 4 or 5 really strong years left. If he leaves, George will have egg on his face for a long time.


Is Pettite great because he has the most postseason wins of all time? Or is he a product of his era and team? I'll vote for the latter rather than the former.

In the "heyday" of baseball there wasn't multiple rounds of the post-season. In fact, there was the World Series. That was it. As baseball evolved, a second round was added. Now, we have three rounds. Find a list of all pitchers who have been to the post-season EIGHT times , let alone EIGHT years in a row. I'm sure you've got a short list. Let's shorten the list by throwing out every pitcher who hasn't been to the World Series at least five times. Let's shorten that list one more time by eliminating all players who never played in an era when there was a Divisional Series. I'm guessing that the current list is comprised of one individual. That individual is Andy Pettite. A result of the times and the team. Hardly a great pitcher. Hardly worth $15 million.
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Postby timkell » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:09 am

Lofunzo wrote:The only reason that we are discussing how much he is worth is because of the Yankees. He is worth more to them than anyone else. No matter what the stats say, he has proven that he can get the job done in NY and in big spots in NY. Not all pitchers can say that. That is why I want them to sign him and will be sad to see him go.


I'll be sad, too, Lofunzo. I love Pettite!! But you have to have a ceiling for what a player is really worth to your team. You don't just pay him whatever it will take. You need to be rational about it what you're going to pay a guy.

In the end, if he wants to go to Houston, and he'll only come back to NY for an extra four million above what Houston's offering, why would that be worth it to the Yankees?

Contrary to popular belief, the Yankees do have SOME limit on their budget. Even they don't like to waste four million.
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Postby pkarr5000 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:11 am

timkell wrote:
He is now, IMO, a great pitcher.


Yes, he is a great pitcher, but he's not one of the top ten pitchers in baseball.

Quick, of the top of my head, in no particular order...
Halladay
Unit
Schilling
Pedro
Mulder
Prior
Hudson
Mussina
Oswalt
Schmidt

...are all better than Pettite. And you can name more. Only aces are worth 15 million.

He's maybe worth 11 million because he's a lefty. Is that so bad?

Yeah, he was awesome in the playoffs, but he'll still be Andy Pettite next year, which means he's a damn fine starting pitcher, but he's no staff ace.



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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:14 am

timkell wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:The only reason that we are discussing how much he is worth is because of the Yankees. He is worth more to them than anyone else. No matter what the stats say, he has proven that he can get the job done in NY and in big spots in NY. Not all pitchers can say that. That is why I want them to sign him and will be sad to see him go.


I'll be sad, too, Lofunzo. I love Pettite!! But you have to have a ceiling for what a player is really worth to your team. You don't just pay him whatever it will take. You need to be rational about it what you're going to pay a guy.

In the end, if he wants to go to Houston, and he'll only come back to NY for an extra four million above what Houston's offering, why would that be worth it to the Yankees?

Contrary to popular belief, the Yankees do have SOME limit on their budget. Even they don't like to waste four million.


I understand and agree with a lot of what you said but they could have avoided a lot of this if they just would have showed some interest up until now.

In case there was any doubt, if Pettitte goes, the Yankees are going to be looking for a new manager (Mattingly) and a new pitching coach before 2005.
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Postby Hurtya » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:40 am

ABC 13 Eyewitness news reports that it is possible tommorow morning Pettite will be an Astro.
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Postby Siege1386 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:40 am

ESPN reports on Sportscenter that Pettite will give the Yankees one last chance to sign him.
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Postby Madison » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:43 am

Hurtya wrote:ABC 13 Eyewitness news reports that it is possible tommorow morning Pettite will be an Astro.


The media print is saying an answer should be made by Friday now. Not Thursday like originally thought.

Siege1386 wrote:ESPN reports on Sportscenter that Pettite will give the Yankees one last chance to sign him.


Sure looks that way.
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