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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:19 pm

xeifrank wrote:I'm just curious as to what the advantages of having a 6th or even 7th category in some leagues are? At some point you just have too many categories to easily manage, and are better off just going with a points league. To each, his or her own, I guess. vr, Xei


I like 6x6 with holds and OPS because it evens up rates versus counts. In 5x5 you have one rate stat (BA) and 4 counts on offense and two rates and 3 counts on pitching. In 6x6 it's 4 count and 2 rate for each and that forces you to balance choices better.

6x6 with holds also reduces the importance of closers.

And, finally, I like OPS because I'm a stat guy and like anything that places value on what really matters in baseball.
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Postby hot4tx » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:04 am

Another value of 6x6 leagues is that it forces you to do a little extra research, since there's 500,000 "experts" to tell you how to draft a 5x5 league. 6x6 mixes it up a bit and makes people do more thinking for themselves.

We've even tried fielding % as a 6th hitters category and that's been really interesting. Guys who can hit but stink on defense hurt your club, like they hurt their real MLB club.

And for pitching, holds are probably a good one to do. The only problem is it makes all the other managers take MRPs too. Usually on me and one other guy in the league draft the MRPs much so without holds I get my pick of the litter later. ;)
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Postby Ender » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:58 am

I disagree with everyone~

OPS just slides your league to where it heavily favors power hitters over base stealers or good average guys.

Holds is just about the worst pitching stat you can add. It devalues all pitching because starters lose another category they add to, it devalues all non elite closers and adds another highly random stat.

You want to add stats that make the most players valuable, OPS doesn't do that and Holds devalues more players than it increase value for and completely throws off the balance of hitting vs pitching. You also want to add stats that are more predictable instead of something like Holds.

If you want to use OPS you replace AVG with it and then add K's as a negative value. That gives you 6 categories without just making power hitters the no brainer top dogs. A high average low K guy gains value as much as a high OPS big K guy and a really good hitter who can get a high OPS and not K a lot gains the most which is how it should be.

For pitching I personally like OPS against which tells more about a pitcher than ERA or WHIP and I don't think it throws off the balance that much. It also makes heavy ground ball low K guys more valuable increasing the size of the player pool.
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Postby CheeseBeger » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:19 pm

K/BB is pretty nice. It actually does raise the value of many of the Middle Relievers because many of the elite MR's have a higher K/BB than the average starter.

I think I like it because I can use my strategy of getting a few elite MR's without forcing everyone else to compete with me (with Holds everyones trying for Zumaya/Broxton/Shields)
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Postby TheA'sFatLeadoffMan » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:05 pm

OPS, but I'm surprised no one has said triples, triples is a nice way to give some of those leadoff hitters a value closer to the sluggers.

Then holds, not many other great options out there, maybe QS if your league supports it.
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Postby CheeseBeger » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:39 pm

Sure its nice that Steve Finley, Pierre and Lofton hit about 12 triples last year, but the thing is that power hitting SHOULD be worth a lot more than these guys....
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Postby Hands22 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:17 pm

I would add Holds for pitchers, then instead of adding OPS for hitters just ditch AVG and add OBP and SLG as seperate categories. If AVG is a must then I guess go OPS but I prefer it the other way.
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Postby chasebt694 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:50 pm

I personaly like holds. Middle Relief is a huge part of baseball and the teams with good middle relief are typically better. The same can said about holds in fantasy baseball. We have had holds in our fantasy league for at least 5 years and the same guys every year forget about it and never catch up (they wonder why they never win). OPS is a great catogory but it does shift balance to the power hitters. If you don't like OPS i think doubles is a great stat. Doubles is a power number, not the homerun type but it rewards the your players who drive the ball. Great stat. I wish Yahoo had a double/triples combined state.
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Ender wrote:I disagree with everyone~

OPS just slides your league to where it heavily favors power hitters over base stealers or good average guys.

Holds is just about the worst pitching stat you can add. It devalues all pitching because starters lose another category they add to, it devalues all non elite closers and adds another highly random stat.

You want to add stats that make the most players valuable, OPS doesn't do that and Holds devalues more players than it increase value for and completely throws off the balance of hitting vs pitching. You also want to add stats that are more predictable instead of something like Holds.

If you want to use OPS you replace AVG with it and then add K's as a negative value. That gives you 6 categories without just making power hitters the no brainer top dogs. A high average low K guy gains value as much as a high OPS big K guy and a really good hitter who can get a high OPS and not K a lot gains the most which is how it should be.

For pitching I personally like OPS against which tells more about a pitcher than ERA or WHIP and I don't think it throws off the balance that much. It also makes heavy ground ball low K guys more valuable increasing the size of the player pool.


Chacun a son gout. I got no problem with adding things that favor power hitters, since that is something that is fundamentally undervalued in fantasy baseball compared to real baseball. OPS quickly adds in the importance of walks and doubles and triples, as well as effectively double counting both hitting singles and homers.

I've detailed many times the reasons I like holds. If randomness is an issue, wins and saves should also be eliminated. Further it devalues starters and relievers, but boosts set up men, so the claim that it devalues all pitching is not true. It devalues some pitchers in favor of others.

I don't see any purpose to adding cats that "make the most players valuable" (and I don't really see any stat that does this more than Holds anyway, since it makes an entire class of pitchers representing 150-200 players more valuable).

OPS against is heavily influenced by park, defense, BABIP, and HR/FB. And I don't see any truth to the connection to GB non-strikeout pitchers. Three of the top ten guys in OPS against last year were in the top ten in G/F. Four of them were in the top ten in Ks.
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Postby Ender » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:18 pm

I've detailed many times the reasons I like holds. If randomness is an issue, wins and saves should also be eliminated. Further it devalues starters and relievers, but boosts set up men, so the claim that it devalues all pitching is not true. It devalues some pitchers in favor of others.


It devalues pitching in general /shrug. Every pitcher drops a good 2-3 rounds in value when you add holds except middle relievers who still are less valuable than a starter, it makes anything but the elite closers go way down in value. Its just not a strong stat.

I've played in an OPS and Holds 6x6 and it was the worst league I've ever played in, simply made the big hitters dominate, pitching was pretty much useless and random. if I wanted to play in a league like that I'd go play fantasy football.
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