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Add the BoSox to the teams I Respect...(As a Yankee fan)

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Postby ramble2 » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:09 pm

I don't think the financial system used by the NFL is the right solution for MLB. There are several reasons I think this, including the inability of NFL teams to retain an adequate number of their best players, and the lack of guaranteed contracts for the players.

I doubt I'll get much love for suggesting that pro atheletes in the NFL, NBA and MLB can get exploited - but they can. I think it's a shame that NFL players' contracts aren't guaranteed. Especially given how much that sport physically wears down players. Teams can just cut players and, poof!, don't have to pay the salary.

I'm not saying the these guys aren't well compensated for what they do, because they are. But there is a huge difference in the median and average salaries of MLB players (though I don't know what the numbers were for last year). The huge contracts drive up the average, but the median salary is a lot lower.

MLB encourages high school kids to forego college and devote 6 years to trying to get to the majors. If they don't make it? Too bad. If they do make it, they deserve to share in the profits of MLB.

I don't think a salary cap, in and of itself, is the solution. The only way a cap could work if it was in conjunction with a salary minimum. Something like the minimum and maximum would be 25-50% off of the MLB average payroll the previous year.

The real solution is for the owners and players to align their interests. Maybe more of the tv revenue could be directly allocated to the players in exchange for them accepting a maximum and minimum salary cap. If a significant portion of a player's salary were directly tied to tv (and other marketed) revenue, then the players would have as much incentive for promoting the game of baseball as the owners. Gasp! An actual partnership between the two trying to work for the good of the game?! :-o
"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics. You don't have to wait for the reviews." - Sandy Koufax
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Postby Gang Green » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:11 pm

Piazza is productive but Trachsel's year last year was a career year. Don't hold your breath. Even if you consider them both productive, then trade them while they still have value if you are going to rebuild. If you are rebuilding, then it makes no sense keeping those guys around. If you think you can still win with the team you have, then go out and sign Vlad Guerrero. Figure out a way to get A-Rod. Sign Colon. You certainly have the money for it. Go all out if you are going to go for a title. Either rebuild from scratch or add on significant players and go for it. Holding onto Piazza, Trachsel and Floyd makes no sense when by time the rookies are good enough players to help win a title, these guys will be retiring.Trade these guys now and get young guys in return who will complement guys like Reyes and Phillips when the team is able to compete for a title. I'm not quite sure what the gameplan is at Flushing. On top of that, the reason for my previous post was there is no gameplan at Flushing, you are coming off an embarrassing season and there are Met fans on here who take potshots at the Yankees. That truly makes no sense.
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Postby timkell » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:24 pm

Also, success at the minor league level DOESN'T CORRELATE to success at the major league level


Minor league success does, in fact, correllate quite well with major league success. Bill James has written a ton about this.
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Postby timkell » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:44 pm

In all honesty, what glimmer of hope does a Tiger or Brewer fan have?


Yeah, but Hootie, do you think the Tigers and Brewers being so terrible has anything whatsoever to do with payroll disparity? These are probably the two worst run teams in baseball. That has nothing to do with payroll disparity or revenue disparity.

I'm getting roped into this again. How many times have we argued this? Hey One More Beer, please go back and read the countless other threads and come up with some new arguments before you start bringing this up again.

Since about 1921, people have been complaining about the same thing in baseball. Miraculously, (if we had a sarcasm emoticon, I would insert it right here) the sport has survived. Back then, New York was the major leagues, and no other team had any hope pretty much every year for thirty five years. Yankees, Dodgers, Giants was all there was.

No one complained about the Yankees in the early nineties when they stunk. They built an incredible team with home grown talent, and they've sustained it with free agent signings and trades. As others have pointed out, their minor league system is extremely weak right now. Within a few years, the Yankees will likely begin declining, at which time either George will do what he did in the 80s, which was to keep buying overpriced free agents and failing to win, or he'll realize why the latest dynasty happened, and he'll start focusing on developing from within again.

Yes, he'll be able to rebuild much faster than most teams. Is that a crime?

The Mariners exist in a smaller market than most of these "small market" teams. They realized they have something most businesses don't. A monopoly. They're now considered a "mid market" team because they focused on building their market and fan base. Other teams could do that too.

Every team can hold all new players for six years. That's plenty of time to field a cheap, competitive team like the A's do every year. It can be done, and it's done every single year.

Who's the biggest draw for every other team in the AL? The Yankees, when they come to your town.

As I've said before, the Yankees are raising the bar with their obsession with winning. As a fan, you can decide, do I want other teams to rise to that level, or do I want the other teams to force the Yankees to lower themselves down? Me? I want every owner out to realize that it's not a cake walk. You have to work, and you have to commit to winning. Get with the program and knock the Yankees down by making your team better. In the meantime, quit the bitching, invest in some quality scouting, build your market up, sell the game in your city, and make a ten year plan to turn yourself into a "big market".

No way to salary cap. I hate the NFL now. I don't think there are any great teams in the NFL. It's just a bunch of mediocre teams, which is why a super bowl champ can miss the playoffs, and a terrible team one year can have the best record in the league the next. I'd rather have a handful of truly great teams battling it out than a bunch of mediocre teams.
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Postby Gang Green » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:26 pm

Minor league success does, in fact, correllate quite well with major league success. Bill James has written a ton about this.


Perhaps correlate was the improper word. Success at the minor league level doesn't guaranteemajor league success. Bill James, actuallys states that for every 100 pitchers who are studs at the minor league level, about 98 of them will not make it at the major league level because they will develop some sort of injury.
James also says that although its easier to predict what hitters will do at the major league level than pitchers, there are limits to his knowledge and flaws in the way he tries to implement that knowledge which make it difficult to reliably predict performance.
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Postby blankman » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:39 pm

timkell wrote:
In all honesty, what glimmer of hope does a Tiger or Brewer fan have?


Yeah, but Hootie, do you think the Tigers and Brewers being so terrible has anything whatsoever to do with payroll disparity? These are probably the two worst run teams in baseball. That has nothing to do with payroll disparity or revenue disparity.

I'm getting roped into this again. How many times have we argued this? Hey One More Beer, please go back and read the countless other threads and come up with some new arguments before you start bringing this up again.

Since about 1921, people have been complaining about the same thing in baseball. Miraculously, (if we had a sarcasm emoticon, I would insert it right here) the sport has survived. Back then, New York was the major leagues, and no other team had any hope pretty much every year for thirty five years. Yankees, Dodgers, Giants was all there was.

No one complained about the Yankees in the early nineties when they stunk. They built an incredible team with home grown talent, and they've sustained it with free agent signings and trades. As others have pointed out, their minor league system is extremely weak right now. Within a few years, the Yankees will likely begin declining, at which time either George will do what he did in the 80s, which was to keep buying overpriced free agents and failing to win, or he'll realize why the latest dynasty happened, and he'll start focusing on developing from within again.

Yes, he'll be able to rebuild much faster than most teams. Is that a crime?

The Mariners exist in a smaller market than most of these "small market" teams. They realized they have something most businesses don't. A monopoly. They're now considered a "mid market" team because they focused on building their market and fan base. Other teams could do that too.

Every team can hold all new players for six years. That's plenty of time to field a cheap, competitive team like the A's do every year. It can be done, and it's done every single year.

Who's the biggest draw for every other team in the AL? The Yankees, when they come to your town.

As I've said before, the Yankees are raising the bar with their obsession with winning. As a fan, you can decide, do I want other teams to rise to that level, or do I want the other teams to force the Yankees to lower themselves down? Me? I want every owner out to realize that it's not a cake walk. You have to work, and you have to commit to winning. Get with the program and knock the Yankees down by making your team better. In the meantime, quit the bitching, invest in some quality scouting, build your market up, sell the game in your city, and make a ten year plan to turn yourself into a "big market".

No way to salary cap. I hate the NFL now. I don't think there are any great teams in the NFL. It's just a bunch of mediocre teams, which is why a super bowl champ can miss the playoffs, and a terrible team one year can have the best record in the league the next. I'd rather have a handful of truly great teams battling it out than a bunch of mediocre teams.


I couldn't agree more.

Here's a hope for a MINIMUM salary level. Owners need to stop pocketing the money and reinvest it in their team.
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Postby DK » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:54 pm

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, so what do we do, just cut Piazza, Trachsel, and Glavine? Mike can still be productive playing another position, after he gets his home run record at catcher. Trachsel, hmmmmmmm, lets see he won 16 games on a team that won 66, thats not too bad in my book. Glavine, well I didn't understand that myself but what can I say, the Wilpons or Phillips or someone thought it was a good idea to sign a 37 year old pitcher to a multiyear, multi million dollar contract.

And why shouldn't we mention our farm system. We have a lot of promising players in the minors. And as faar as Heilman, can a rookie have a bad year. Oh I forgot, Greg Maddux was lights out his rookie year? Oh, he wasn't my bad. Well then there was RJ, oh wait never mind, how about Curt Schilling, hmmm.

Yes the Mets have made a lot of bad decisions, paying 100 million for a team that won 66 games is disgraceful. Mo I could have seen happening, but who thought Alomar would play as bad as he did? Who would have take a bet if I offered you Tom Glavine at 9 - 14 and a 4.50+ ERA? Not many I am sure. Burnitz was playing very well when he left us for the Dodgers. Cedeno, well as much as a disgrace as he has been did steal 66 for Detroit the year before we signed him, who could have said he would just stop? If you are as all knowing as all you seem to be, then I expect to see you as a GM here soon. Please post here to let me know when you are so I can offer proper congratulations.


I was going to reply until I saw this. This is nearly word for word my reply. props brocmet ;D
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Postby timkell » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:27 pm

BTW, sorry if my posts today have been a bit less friendly than usual. Nothing personal to anyone. Just venting!
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Postby DK » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:29 pm

timkell wrote:BTW, sorry if my posts today have been a bit less friendly than usual. Nothing personal to anyone. Just venting!


Are you snowed in like I?
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Postby blankman » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:21 am

DK wrote:
timkell wrote:BTW, sorry if my posts today have been a bit less friendly than usual. Nothing personal to anyone. Just venting!


Are you snowed in like I?


I know I am too- hence my additional posts today to my usual 0-1 per day.
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