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Bailey/HUghes/Linceum

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Which of these is the best prospect?

Homer Bailey
8
17%
Phillip Hughes
26
57%
Tim Linecum
12
26%
 
Total votes : 46

Postby Big Hurt CPOY 06 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:29 pm

Lincecum's mechanics don't resemble any of the others.

The fact that you say, "both Lincecum and Bailey will have bad arm problems" is ridiculous.


Jose Reyes will have leg problems. Look, I can do it to.
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Postby sagecoll » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:03 pm

Big Hurt CPOY 06 wrote:Lincecum's mechanics don't resemble any of the others. you're absolutely right, they're worse than all that I mentioned

The fact that you say, "both Lincecum and Bailey will have bad arm problems" is ridiculous. Not at all, it's common sense to say that someone who continously does a harmful motion with his body will hurt his body. The harmful motion is the shoulder and elbow snap in the M shape I described. I could give you more examples, but you'd probably still be in denial.


Jose Reyes will have leg problems. Look, I can do it to.actually all scouts said that Reyes would've had leg problems if he continued with his old running style which ironically caused him to get injured. But since the mets changed his running style, I don't foresee any problems
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:37 pm

Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between the photo of Johan and Liriano. Both look like their shoulder will hurt bad in the long run. Same goes for Carlton even.

What exactly is different with Johan and Liriano? Aside from glove position?

maybe you are talking about throwing hand's position, but the difference is rather small.

The only difference I can see is the "positives" tend to tuck in their gloves and the "negatives" don't. And there's always the factor of the timing of the photo. I bet Liriano's delivery is closer to Johan's 3 frames later.
Last edited by PlayingWithFire on Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sagecoll » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:44 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between the photo of Johan and Liriano. Both look like their shoulder will hurt bad in the long run. Same goes for Carlton even.

What exactly is different with Johan and Liriano? Aside from glove position?

maybe you are talking about throwing hand's position, but the difference is rather small.


It all has to do with throwing hand, Santana's is above his shoulder while Liriano's is under, that's all that matters. When your throwing hand is under your shoulder you put so much stress on your rotator cuff when you throw, simple as that
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:47 pm

sagecoll wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between the photo of Johan and Liriano. Both look like their shoulder will hurt bad in the long run. Same goes for Carlton even.

What exactly is different with Johan and Liriano? Aside from glove position?

maybe you are talking about throwing hand's position, but the difference is rather small.


It all has to do with throwing hand, Santana's is above his shoulder while Liriano's is under, that's all that matters. When your throwing hand is under your shoulder you put so much stress on your rotator cuff when you throw, simple as that


???

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Postby sagecoll » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:21 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
sagecoll wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between the photo of Johan and Liriano. Both look like their shoulder will hurt bad in the long run. Same goes for Carlton even.

What exactly is different with Johan and Liriano? Aside from glove position?

maybe you are talking about throwing hand's position, but the difference is rather small.


It all has to do with throwing hand, Santana's is above his shoulder while Liriano's is under, that's all that matters. When your throwing hand is under your shoulder you put so much stress on your rotator cuff when you throw, simple as that


???

Image


he gets to that point by snaping his elbow, from this position

Image
Image

That's the problem with the below the arm thing, they start with their throwing hand low below their shoulder with their elbow up, and then to get back to a normal throwing position, they snap their elbow, which is what drove Liriano to tear something, because of all the stress he throws on elbow with that snap into regular position motion, it's the difference between him and santana, It's why Miller and Prior have problems, and why Homer will eventually have problems,
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:32 pm

I definitely agree the arm twist is no good. But I thought it was mostly the timing of the photo. Either way, I went and looked at some game footage and I honestly can't say I love Hughes' delivery either...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w4hIfXx8n-Q

What's so great about Johan's delivery is it's smooth. It looks slow to me and it seems like his arm speed ain't that great, but he can still throw the ball damn fast. Great for him. In this clip here it looks like Hughes has an awful snap of the arm too. I'm not sure about Bailey. I know Lincecum's delivery ain't good for his arm. But Hughes' ain't much better.
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Postby sagecoll » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:49 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:I definitely agree the arm twist is no good. But I thought it was mostly the timing of the photo. Either way, I went and looked at some game footage and I honestly can't say I love Hughes' delivery either...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w4hIfXx8n-Q

What's so great about Johan's delivery is it's smooth. It looks slow to me and it seems like his arm speed ain't that great, but he can still throw the ball damn fast. Great for him. In this clip here it looks like Hughes has an awful snap of the arm too. I'm not sure about Bailey. I know Lincecum's delivery ain't good for his arm. But Hughes' ain't much better.


I could see what you're looking at there, but the thing is that unlike Bailey or Lincecum, his arm stays above his elbow. So despite the fact that his arm does go down a little in the windup, the hand is never under the elbow, it's always over
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Postby nathan050904 » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:06 pm

Great we got a resident doctor in the house or a Will Carroll wanna be... Fact is theres nothing wrong with Lincecum's mechanics... PLEASE before you start making comments on stuff you have NO experience with do some research... OR atleast read what Carroll has to say about Lincecum. The fact of the matter is A LOT of pitchers who have arm problems throw a slider. It's probably the most devastating pitch on a young pitcher. OH and if you think Hughes has perfect mechanics pleaseeeeeeeeee go look at his injury history.... PERFECT? I think not...
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:25 pm

nathan050904 wrote:Great we got a resident doctor in the house or a Will Carroll wanna be... Fact is theres nothing wrong with Lincecum's mechanics... PLEASE before you start making comments on stuff you have NO experience with do some research... OR atleast read what Carroll has to say about Lincecum. The fact of the matter is A LOT of pitchers who have arm problems throw a slider. It's probably the most devastating pitch on a young pitcher. OH and if you think Hughes has perfect mechanics pleaseeeeeeeeee go look at his injury history.... PERFECT? I think not...


(Mod Edit) A guy can have perfect mechanic and still get hurt and a guy can have bad mechanic and still be durable. We don't know anything. All we have is some general knowledge and gut feeling. And my gut feeling tells me Lincecum will hold up just fine. And his delivery looks smoother than Hughes, who has that uncomfortable "pause" in his delivery.
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