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Coors effect.

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Postby DK » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:52 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Madison wrote:
LCBOY wrote:Look at Bonds' estimated stats if he would hve played in Coors Field:

.430-75 HRs- 146 RBIs

WOW!!!!!! :-B

One day someone in the Bonds-ARod-Sosa-Bagwell-Thomas-Griffey caliber is going to to play for the Rockies. And when he does he is going to destroy just about every hitting record there is.

Can you imagine if Bonds played for the Rockies during his 73 HR season. How many HRs would he have hit? 80? 90? 100? It just boggles the mind... 8-o


Nah, they would just break the intentional walk record again........


Not if he had Helton or Wilson hitting behind him. Imagine if Bonds had protection like that in Coors!?!?! It would be unfair to the old timers though. I think there should be three record books. One for the deadball era, one for the normal era, and one for the steroid/coors era.



Sounds like we have a budding LCBOY in here. ;D
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Postby Madison » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:26 pm

LCBOY wrote:Possibly...Madison, I get the feeling that you like to disagree with me just to be contrary. :-D


No, it's not intentional at all. Guess we just think a little different sometimes which is cool. :-)

I just think we are past the day and age when any ballplayer will stand ridiculously above all the others. The game plan now is to take anyone like that out of play (walks, intentional or otherwise). With that kind of thing going on, no one will stand out like some of the greats in history did.
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:27 pm

ramble2 wrote:I still don't know what a hangover effect is.


Must be a non drinker? :-D
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:54 pm

ERBOES Interesting article. I know Coors player's suffer on road, but didn't think it was the same as the home benefit. I know some think the struggle comes from players messing up their swings, when they are home. Instead of just playing as if Coors was neutral, they tee off, likely overswinging, and trying to lift ball, since thats where Coors benefit comes in.

Looking at Rockies and opponents from 00-02

Coors Rockies 326
Coors opponents 290
36 point advantage Col

Road Rockies 248
Road opponents 260
12 point advantage opponents

36-12 24 point advantage Col

Coors Rockies hrs 303
Coors opponents hrs 367
64 hr advantage opponents

Road Rockies 182
Road opponents 243
63 hr advantage opponents

127 hr advantage opponents :-t

Coors Rockies runs 1,531
Coors opponents runs 1,398
133 run advantage Col

Road Rockies runs 922
Road opponents runs 1,031
109 run advantage opponents
133-109 = 22 run advantage Col

It looks like Rockies benefit some in average and runs, but take a bit hit in hrs. But run production is the most important number, since thats the overall goal of hitting. A 22 run advantage over 3 years is about a 7 run advantage a year. :-o Yes, it looks like Coors has almost no benefit.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:19 am

DK wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
Madison wrote:
LCBOY wrote:Look at Bonds' estimated stats if he would hve played in Coors Field:

.430-75 HRs- 146 RBIs

WOW!!!!!! :-B

One day someone in the Bonds-ARod-Sosa-Bagwell-Thomas-Griffey caliber is going to to play for the Rockies. And when he does he is going to destroy just about every hitting record there is.

Can you imagine if Bonds played for the Rockies during his 73 HR season. How many HRs would he have hit? 80? 90? 100? It just boggles the mind... 8-o


Nah, they would just break the intentional walk record again........


Not if he had Helton or Wilson hitting behind him. Imagine if Bonds had protection like that in Coors!?!?! It would be unfair to the old timers though. I think there should be three record books. One for the deadball era, one for the normal era, and one for the steroid/coors era.



Sounds like we have a budding LCBOY in here. ;D


Is that a bad thing :-?
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Postby Erboes » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:52 am

Hootie,

I have little doubt that Colorado as a team is at a disadvantage playing their home games at Coor's, but I am talking about individual hitters and the effects on their hitting. If there is a "hangover" effect, I don't think there's any way that it comes close to the advantages they gain from Coors. If it did, I don't think the Rockies would regularly be the NL leaders in runs and average if it were otherwise (except for the past two seasons, in which they've dropped to third and fourth. Again, humidor?).
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Postby DK » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:02 pm

LBJackal wrote:
DK wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
Madison wrote:
LCBOY wrote:Look at Bonds' estimated stats if he would hve played in Coors Field:

.430-75 HRs- 146 RBIs

WOW!!!!!! :-B

One day someone in the Bonds-ARod-Sosa-Bagwell-Thomas-Griffey caliber is going to to play for the Rockies. And when he does he is going to destroy just about every hitting record there is.

Can you imagine if Bonds played for the Rockies during his 73 HR season. How many HRs would he have hit? 80? 90? 100? It just boggles the mind... 8-o


Nah, they would just break the intentional walk record again........


Not if he had Helton or Wilson hitting behind him. Imagine if Bonds had protection like that in Coors!?!?! It would be unfair to the old timers though. I think there should be three record books. One for the deadball era, one for the normal era, and one for the steroid/coors era.



Sounds like we have a budding LCBOY in here. ;D


Is that a bad thing :-?


Only his SS views. :D
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:45 pm

Erboes wrote:Hootie,

I have little doubt that Colorado as a team is at a disadvantage playing their home games at Coor's, but I am talking about individual hitters and the effects on their hitting. If there is a "hangover" effect, I don't think there's any way that it comes close to the advantages they gain from Coors. If it did, I don't think the Rockies would regularly be the NL leaders in runs and average if it were otherwise (except for the past two seasons, in which they've dropped to third and fourth. Again, humidor?).


Their hitting has been great, and sure they can lead the NL in runs and offense, that's great. But what about their pitchers? How can they learn to be consistent MLB pitchers when they're playing in Coors half the time? I don't think anybody outside of of Shawn Chacon has been remotely decent in a Rockies uniform for any stretch of time Remember David Nied? Next big thing - LOL, yeah right. What they gain in hitting, it seems they lose in pitching, plus more. That's just how I see it, I don't have empirical evidence. But I'm sure they sell a lot of tix out there to display the offense. Hell, I've been to a game in Colorado, and it's the only one I've been to outside of Toronto. I got to sit in the rockpile :-D (Sounds cool, but it's really just the cheap seat nosebleeds)
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Postby LCBOY » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:17 pm

DK wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Not if he had Helton or Wilson hitting behind him. Imagine if Bonds had protection like that in Coors!?!?! It would be unfair to the old timers though. I think there should be three record books. One for the deadball era, one for the normal era, and one for the steroid/coors era.



Sounds like we have a budding LCBOY in here. ;D


DK,

Can you imagine what Honus Wagner would hit in Coors Field?!! Let me go check some of my Bill James books. I'll bet good ole Bill knows!!!! :-D
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Postby Madison » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:23 pm

LCBOY wrote:DK,

Can you imagine what Honus Wagner would hit in Coors Field?!! Let me go check some of my Bill James books. I'll bet good ole Bill knows!!!! :-D


If there wasn't a pesky little detail about slugging %, then you would be ok. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that little detail is going to be used against you in the debate. I'd like to have seen how you responded to it.
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