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Am I crazy? (I don't want Foulke on the Sox)

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Postby Transmogrifier » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:33 pm

pkarr5000 wrote:if you really dont want him, write a letter to theo and tell him to back off.


I've sent an email, in fact.

Why does everyone think Foulke is a huge savior? Is he really worth 8 million?
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Postby Swinger » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:38 pm

I read as much Moneyball as I could at the bookstore in 2 hours (Billy Beane is Brilliant, by the way, and after reading it, any baseball contract over $5 million sounds ludicrous). But the Sox are not like the A's, and Foulke is definitely a stud; I think this is a reasonable purchase if they do it.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:46 pm

Part of the reason is because The Sox and Yanks are in a battle of can you top this and they have to go for the big fish to satify their egos.
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Postby Madison » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:49 pm

How about to make the fans happy? Last year everyone tore the Sox pen apart. The media, the fans, etc. By signing Foulke, and putting this team on the field, there's no way that they shouldn't do very, very well. If they fail to make it to the World Series with this team (Foulke included), then it gives the Sox the perfect opportunity to rebulid.

"We did everything that everyone wanted us to do and it didn't work, so we have decided to go in another direction................."

Now personally, I don't think they will fail, but it does make sense now doesn't it?

I think getting Foulke is good for Boston, and it's not like they can't afford it. $8 million for a closer? Sure, it sounds high, but that's not as bad as Hoffman's $10 million before they reworked the deal.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:24 am

Madison wrote:Last year everyone tore the Sox pen apart. The media, the fans, etc.


How about all opposing hitters worth their salt :-D I think you forgot them on that short list.

But seriously, I think Foulke would be a good thing for Boston. He won't make them worse, I think we can agree on that. And he has been one of the most dominant closers in baseball without having to rely on throwing 99 MPH fastballs. I think he'll be healthy, and the only thing they really need is bullpen help. Their offense is set, their starters are set, and they could throw any shmoe at 2B as long as he's good defensively. A nice OBP would be nice, but they have an offense that doesn't require more firepower assuming they sign Ortiz. So they might as well spend some more money, and it might as well be where they need it most: a closer. And Foulke is the best available.
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:54 am

BigLebowski wrote:I don't necessarily think that Foulke is a "bad" idea, but I've had the same thoughts. I'm not totally sold on Foulke.


Not much faith in Foulke it looks like. I think he's a top 5 closer, although no closer should get 8 mil a year. When looking at pitcher's, whip and so/w ratio are key. Era can be misleading, especially in non starters.

Foulke has a 1.03 career whip, even better then Rivera's. Foulke has a amazing career so/w ratio of 4-1. Rivera's is 3-1. I'm not saying Foulke is Rivera. But his numbers aren't far off. Look at any of Foulke's years. He displays great control (so/w), and low whip, which leads to fewer runs.
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Postby ramble2 » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:06 am

Madison wrote:How about to make the fans happy? Last year everyone tore the Sox pen apart. The media, the fans, etc. By signing Foulke, and putting this team on the field, there's no way that they shouldn't do very, very well. If they fail to make it to the World Series with this team (Foulke included), then it gives the Sox the perfect opportunity to rebulid.

"We did everything that everyone wanted us to do and it didn't work, so we have decided to go in another direction................."

Now personally, I don't think they will fail, but it does make sense now doesn't it?

I think getting Foulke is good for Boston, and it's not like they can't afford it. $8 million for a closer? Sure, it sounds high, but that's not as bad as Hoffman's $10 million before they reworked the deal.


Foulke would be a solid addition to the bullpen. If not for Manuel, there'd be a lot more confidence in him as a closer.

But the most important reason is for PR. Madison is right. If the Sox don't get the fans a closer, and the bullpen blows it in the playoffs then the finger pointing gets ugly. The Sox were close this year, and are making a run for the WS. This means shoring up starting and relief pitching. After this season they can revisit all the FAs and decide what to do.
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Postby jay » Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:01 am

HOOTIE wrote:
BigLebowski wrote:I don't necessarily think that Foulke is a "bad" idea, but I've had the same thoughts. I'm not totally sold on Foulke.


Not much faith in Foulke it looks like. I think he's a top 5 closer, although no closer should get 8 mil a year. When looking at pitcher's, whip and so/w ratio are key. Era can be misleading, especially in non starters.

Foulke has a 1.03 career whip, even better then Rivera's. Foulke has a amazing career so/w ratio of 4-1. Rivera's is 3-1. I'm not saying Foulke is Rivera. But his numbers aren't far off. Look at any of Foulke's years. He displays great control (so/w), and low whip, which leads to fewer runs.


I will agree with Hootie on two things:
1) No closer is worth 8 mil
2) Foulke is a great pitcher

I understand the concern about Billy Beane using and losing closers for draft picks, but Beane knows that Foulke is great at his job: coming in with no one on and getting 3 outs.

IMO, Mike Timlin should be the closer (7/1 K/BB) and the Sox should save the money to spend on Nomar/Pedro (not sure how either of them fit into future plans but they're great players).

Now, if you are in the "your best pitcher should come in to get the tough out" school of thought, like me, then you stick Timlin in there, a la Chad Bradford.

To some up my main point, why spend $8 million on a guy who will pitch 80 great ("easy") innings and let Oakland get two first round picks when you can use the players you have and try to keep Nomar.
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Postby Yikes » Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:38 am

[quote="Madison"]How about to make the fans happy? Last year everyone tore the Sox pen apart. The media, the fans, etc. By signing Foulke, and putting this team on the field, there's no way that they shouldn't do very, very well. If they fail to make it to the World Series with this team (Foulke included), then it gives the Sox the perfect opportunity to rebulid.

"We did everything that everyone wanted us to do and it didn't work, so we have decided to go in another direction................."
[/quote]

Yeah the BoSox were the laughing stock of professional sports for a while in the beginning of last season for their lack of a recognizable name as their closer/s.

I think if I were Theo, part of the reason for signing one of the most expensive closer available on the market is not only for the betterment of the team but also for job security and for pleasing the media.

In case the Boston media again accuses the BoSox for having a crappy bullpen, Theo has a line of defense and can come back and say “see?! I got the best closer available on the market, it’s not my fault he sucked like Billy Koch this year, blame the trainer or the pitching coach for their incompetence in conditioning our star players”
!+)

Remember Pat Gillick of the Mariners getting hammered for not getting another right-handed bat in the lineup? I think Theo didn’t want history to repeat itself at his cost.

Smart move in terms of job security for Theo.

Using the company budget to maintain personal job security. ;-D
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:13 am

Yikes wrote:
Yeah the BoSox were the laughing stock of professional sports for a while in the beginning of last season for their lack of a recognizable name as their closer/s.

I think if I were Theo, part of the reason for signing one of the most expensive closer available on the market is not only for the betterment of the team but also for job security and for pleasing the media.


The trial basis was rather short. Change always comes under fire if there's not instant results. The premise of the closer overrated theory, is why always wait till the 9th to use your best pitcher? Many times the key moment comes in the 7th or 8th.
No team makes a roster move to please the media. Theo's not in any job security.
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