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Assigning dollar values to players

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Assigning dollar values to players

Postby Arlo » Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:11 am

Just curious: for those of you who assign dollar values to players heading into auctions, how much (if anything) do you add for eligibility at multiple positions?

Obviously, even 1B/OF eligibility can be a huge bonus (to say nothing of those C/3Bs :-) ) - has anybody tried to attach a number to that bonus?

Wondering...
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Re: Assigning dollar values to players

Postby grammysboy » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:47 am

Arlo wrote:Obviously, even 1B/OF eligibility can be a huge bonus (to say nothing of those C/3Bs :-) ) - has anybody tried to attach a number to that bonus?

Wondering...


I don't necessarily assign a dollar value, but I know going in that a Robby Hammock or a Matt LeCroy with catcher eligibility are worth more than Josh Bard or Michael Barrett simply because their teams are working at finding ways to get them to the plate. We got a pretty good idea of Teixeira's potential last season and to have him eligible at both corners and OF makes him a pretty hot commodity!
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Postby shortsavage » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:26 am

I base my dollar values on a player's rankings (I use my scoring system to get these, but I am sure something analogous will be made available to the public soon, if it is not already) over the last three seasons. If a player is eligable for multiple positions, I find his value comparatively. So, I would use Matt LeCroy's catcher rankings rather than his DH rankings as a foundation to calculate his worth as a catcher.
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Postby Madison » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:50 am

Who the player is, and their potential makes the biggest difference for me. The better the player, the more money I'd be willing to part with.

Teixeira is a good example. I'd be willing to go over budget on him within reason.

There's also the flip side. I've actually brought down my value for Pujols some, due to him not having 3B eligibility next year.
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Postby grammysboy » Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:48 pm

shortsavage wrote:I base my dollar values on a player's rankings (I use my scoring system to get these, but I am sure something analogous will be made available to the public soon, if it is not already) over the last three seasons. If a player is eligable for multiple positions, I find his value comparatively. So, I would use Matt LeCroy's catcher rankings rather than his DH rankings as a foundation to calculate his worth as a catcher.


Just curious. Does he end up ranked higher on your master list as a catcher than he would as a DH? My guess is he does. In some leagues he also qualifies at 1B. Do you have a formula you use to compare thee positions? Do you always select the highest ranking player available at a position you have open?

Lots of questions, I know, but I'm fairly new at this so I'm asking them. Answer if you feel like it, if not, thanks anyway.
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Postby GoDucks » Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:38 pm

The one other thing, that you need to take account in assigning values is position availability. Last year, in my 10 team AL-Only league, someone was able to get a $1 Frank Thomas. The reason, was that going into the auction, there were something like 12 players that were only eligible for DH (the UT position only). After getting the keeper lists prior to the auction, I knew that I would be able to get Edgar, Burks, Thomas or another DH-only person for my UT position really cheap. Therefore, I only allocated $1 for the UT position, and increased my budget for OF. I ended up with a $1 Ellis Burks (oh well).
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Postby stevelabny » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:40 am

Assign his value at his weakest position.
Period.

If you move him to the other position, his value would be less, so adding any additional money for versatility is pointless.

Yes the versatility MIGHT help you if you can snatch another good player at the weak position, but in general it means you will overpay for one of them. And paying extra at the draft for potential trade or free agent acquisitions later on is silly.
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Re: Assigning dollar values to players

Postby wrveres » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:50 am

Arlo wrote:Just curious: for those of you who assign dollar values to players heading into auctions, how much (if anything) do you add for eligibility at multiple positions?

Obviously, even 1B/OF eligibility can be a huge bonus (to say nothing of those C/3Bs :-) ) - has anybody tried to attach a number to that bonus?

Wondering...


I never assign dollar figures in auctions. I used to, but I found they are never really adhered too. Way to many factors come into play as the auction progresses. I have a budget, I know what I'm looking to spend and on which players, but that is just me personally ...

I agree though. You need to 'rank' him at his weakest position. IE C or 3B...
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Postby Arlo » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:36 pm

stevelabny wrote:Assign his value at his weakest position.
Period.

If you move him to the other position, his value would be less, so adding any additional money for versatility is pointless.

Yes the versatility MIGHT help you if you can snatch another good player at the weak position, but in general it means you will overpay for one of them. And paying extra at the draft for potential trade or free agent acquisitions later on is silly.

I think you're missing the point. The added versatility can prevent having to make extra free agent acquisitions (for injury fill-ins, for instance), thus saving on FAAB and unnecessary roster moves.

In addition, each extra position essentially adds depth to your bench, making it more likely that you can squeeze the maximum number of games/ip out of each position and allowing for greater exploitation of matchups.

The effect is definitely non-zero (in relatively standard leagues), and simply assigning the value of the shallowest position doesn't reflect that. Now if only those benefits could be quantified...
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Postby stevelabny » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:28 pm

Arlo wrote:I think you're missing the point. The added versatility can prevent having to make extra free agent acquisitions (for injury fill-ins, for instance), thus saving on FAAB and unnecessary roster moves.

In addition, each extra position essentially adds depth to your bench, making it more likely that you can squeeze the maximum number of games/ip out of each position and allowing for greater exploitation of matchups.

The effect is definitely non-zero (in relatively standard leagues), and simply assigning the value of the shallowest position doesn't reflect that. Now if only those benefits could be quantified...


How does the added versatility help you not have to make a FA pickup? I have a 3B-OF. I usually play him at 3B. After paying for him in the draft (either high auction price or high draft pick) I acquire a necessary CI, but dont waste money/picks on a THIRD 3B. One of my OFs goes down, I move my valuable 3B to an OF spot. (where he is now worth "less") I still NEED another CI to cover the hole in my lineup. and a CI will be more expensive in a trade or FAAB pickup than an OF so i'm still better off leaving my 3b-of at my weakest position. Might a stud rookie 3B have just been called up? sure. Can i risk that in the draft? no way.

Most benches are 3-5 players. Even with a 5 player bench, you would need a P, OF, C, and MIs and CIs at the specific position where your starting MI and CI doesnt play. Thats unlikely. But even in the "prepared for anything situation" you will have a backup at EITHER position and the only beneift is whos a better player? your bench OF or your bench 3B?

Yes you might have been able to draft a 3b-eligible Pujols and say "since he CAN play OF too, I wont take a bench OF, ill take an extra bench 3b" but chances are your final dollar or draft pick would be better and more likely spent on the 72nd OF rather than the 25th 3B.

the only way this works is if you draft a versatile player and then somehow another player at the weak position FALLS INTO YOUR LAP later in the draft. again...chances are unlikely.Nice if it happens, but not worth spending extra money on.

As for juggling lineups for better matchups and to get the maximum games played... daily transactions are already ridiculous. daily transactions without a 162 game per position cap are unplayable. the winner will almost always be the one who exploits the rules the best. So in a 162-game per position daily transaction league, or in a standard weekly transaction league your 162 games from your 3B-of are better player at 3B.

Exploiting the matchups? Sure. Maybe a becnh 3B is primed for a career-week while a starting OF is going to two pitchers parks against pitchers he has awful liftetime numbers against. The only way you can take this into account on draft day is if you actually have broken down the schedule on a week to week basis and come up with "hot weeks" and "cold weeks' for every player you might draft. Again, highly unlikely.

(But I do admit it is possible, since I have actually done this on a no GP-cap basketball league, so I would draft players with 5-game weeks in mid-season while other players had 2-game weeks. BUT baseball never has weeks that lopsided in GP and you cant speculate pitching matchups in mid-season, just what park and what pitching staff a player will be facing)

So I stand by my statement. Value by weakest position only.
Any extra benefit is unquantifiable on draft day and it is quite likely there is none at all.
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