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Postby Madison » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:57 am

I do not see the advantage to the Yankees right now. The Sox have the advantage in my opinion. I expect the Sox to sign Foulke, and I expect the Yanks to sign Sheff/Colon/Pettitte. If those things happen, and that's what it looks like, I call it a draw going into the season. Now if the Yankees add another big starter, the advantage might go back to the Yankees in my opinion.
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Postby DK » Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:16 pm

Lofunzo wrote: That said, I will say this. The Sox stepped in sh*t last year with all of their cheap signings (Millar, Mueller, Ortiz, etc.). I would be surprised if they all had career years again like this past year.


I both agree and disagree with you. Millar, Mueller, and Ortiz had great years. I think Millar will get better, and it's hard to discredit the AL batting champion just like that. Ortiz, however, I think will slow down a bit.

I see the Sox in favor, if that damned curse doesn't do them in.
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Postby HOOTIE » Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:15 pm

Lofunzo wrote:I am an objective fan and it alarms me (as a Yanks' fan) that the Sox signed Schilling. That said, I will say this. The Sox stepped in sh*t last year with all of their cheap signings (Millar, Mueller, Ortiz, etc.). I would be surprised if they all had career years again like this past year.

The only other thing that I agree with is that, no matter what anyone else says, until proven wrong, the Yanks and Braves have to be considered to favorities in their divisions.


True, no matter what happens in off season, NY is the team to beat, at least in al. I will say, the Braves lost imo, their most important player. The wind just got taken out of those southern sails.
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Postby PresHabib » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:29 pm

Steve, Pedro and Schilling for the record were acquired in trades so its not like we went out and got them cuz Luchino and Henry (and duquette) have/had a huge wallet. IF they sign Foulke, that will be the only big FA signing they make this offseason. Maybe they'll sign a Fernando Vina, but in no way do I consider him a big impact player so guys like that don't really count. I hardly think that Boston fans liking our chances for the WS due to one trade and one SPECULATED FA signing turns us into instant hypocrites.

Signing both Colon and Sheffield though plays right into the hands of every FA argument anybody ever makes. Notice I leave out Pettitte though, I wouldn't count him as a FA signing cuz he is already a Yankee.

Before you find some reason to call me a Red Sox loving idiot for believing in a team that is cursed or a hypocrite anything negative like that, as you have a pention for doing, I will say something in your favor in terms of FA signings. You posted a while back something about the Yankees paying alot of money to keep the guys who are already Yankees in pinstripes, i.e. Posada, Bernie, Jeter rather than bringing in all the FA's and I thought that was a really good point. I can't say that they don't go out after every FA out there or whatever, but at least they are not A) the 97 marlins or B) the LA Lakers. I just want to distinguish myself from people who insist that the only reason the Yankees win is FA signings and money...of course it plays a part but I don't think its the only reason.

I also want to say that New York is the team to beat until they lose, of course, but I must say, thinking they will totally dominate the Sox and walk all over them, so much so that Boston finishes last (ridiculous) and having your only justification for that being "the curse" is outragous.
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Postby stevelabny » Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:25 pm

matrick wrote:What do you mean the balance of power can not shift in the off season? Are you telling me the Florida Marlins were the favorites to win the world series starting the 1998 season?


simply put...no. the balance of power shifts DURING the season. when the teams are actually PLAYING. not after they sign a few guys in the offseason.
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Postby Arlo » Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:44 pm

Three hundred and sixty-five days a year, the balance of power is constantly changing. Isn't that what makes the game so interesting all year long? Isn't that balance made up of more than just won-lost records?

Sometimes it shifts on the field, sometimes in an agent's office, sometimes under a surgeon's knife...
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Postby stevelabny » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:17 pm

PresHabib wrote:Steve, Pedro and Schilling for the record were acquired in trades so its not like we went out and got them cuz Luchino and Henry (and duquette) have/had a huge wallet. IF they sign Foulke, that will be the only big FA signing they make this offseason. Maybe they'll sign a Fernando Vina, but in no way do I consider him a big impact player so guys like that don't really count. I hardly think that Boston fans liking our chances for the WS due to one trade and one SPECULATED FA signing turns us into instant hypocrites.
Signing both Colon and Sheffield though plays right into the hands of every FA argument anybody ever makes. Notice I leave out Pettitte though, I wouldn't count him as a FA signing cuz he is already a Yankee.
Before you find some reason to call me a Red Sox loving idiot for believing in a team that is cursed or a hypocrite anything negative like that, as you have a pention for doing, I will say something in your favor in terms of FA signings. You posted a while back something about the Yankees paying alot of money to keep the guys who are already Yankees in pinstripes, i.e. Posada, Bernie, Jeter rather than bringing in all the FA's and I thought that was a really good point. I can't say that they don't go out after every FA out there or whatever, but at least they are not A) the 97 marlins or B) the LA Lakers. I just want to distinguish myself from people who insist that the only reason the Yankees win is FA signings and money...of course it plays a part but I don't think its the only reason.


ok, well the instant difference between you and the hypocrites is you acknowledge my point that most of the yankees "money" has been spent on keeping their own players. as ive written before, the only FAs of importance on the team are giambi and mussina. and matsui and contreras who i dont even count, but others do. many people tell me that although they acquired clemens and others in TRADES that they are still an issue of MONEY because nobody else could afford to trade for them. i disagree, BUT the most important thing is that if someone applies this logic to the yankees, they should apply it to the redsox (and schilling and predro).
As for calling you (or other Sox fans) an idiot
THAT WOULD BE AN INSULT TO IDIOTS EVERYWHERE!
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see, thats COMEDY.
i might call the insanely stupid who continue to miss points idiots... but ive never insulted peoples mommas. thats just not my style. i AM sarcastic, i AM snarky, but im still friendly and TRYING to get my points across logically not by being a net-moron.

I
PresHabib wrote: also want to say that New York is the team to beat until they lose, of course, but I must say, thinking they will totally dominate the Sox and walk all over them, so much so that Boston finishes last (ridiculous) and having your only justification for that being "the curse" is outragous.


yes, it was outrageous. that was the point of the illustatration with the sox in last. following my OWN logic of power not shifting in the off-season, the sox will finish second.
the thread was just a yankee fan watching red sox fans get all excited about winning...
and finding it HYSTERICAL because the Sox just CAN'T win. EVER.
so i wanted to remind them of that.
its just a friendly dig.
with a sideswipe at those hypocrites who know who they are.

by the way, i don't believe in magic or curses...but sox fans do...and thats a good enough reason to always remind them of 1918 and the "curse". its FUN.

which is what u always have to remember when reading any post i make. its all for fun. my points are still valid. but dont become personally offended by anything i say.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:07 pm

Madison wrote:I do not see the advantage to the Yankees right now. The Sox have the advantage in my opinion. I expect the Sox to sign Foulke, and I expect the Yanks to sign Sheff/Colon/Pettitte. If those things happen, and that's what it looks like, I call it a draw going into the season. Now if the Yankees add another big starter, the advantage might go back to the Yankees in my opinion.


I understand and who knows what will happen. All that I'm saying is that when you have won as many division titles in a row as the Yanks and Braves have, someone needs to win it from them before I pass the torch.

DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote: That said, I will say this. The Sox stepped in sh*t last year with all of their cheap signings (Millar, Mueller, Ortiz, etc.). I would be surprised if they all had career years again like this past year.


I both agree and disagree with you. Millar, Mueller, and Ortiz had great years. I think Millar will get better, and it's hard to discredit the AL batting champion just like that. Ortiz, however, I think will slow down a bit.

I see the Sox in favor, if that damned curse doesn't do them in.


I agree that they are good players but they all had career years. I wouldn't expect all of the breaks next year as well.

HOOTIE wrote:True, no matter what happens in off season, NY is the team to beat, at least in al. I will say, the Braves lost imo, their most important player. The wind just got taken out of those southern sails.


The Braves have been revamping their team yearly and have continued to win. Every year, there is another team (Mets, Phillies, etc.) that is supposed to take their title but they keep on winning.
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Postby Erboes » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:53 pm

Exactly right about the Braves. Last year I remember watching some pundit proclaiming the death of the Braves using charts and stats and all this crap. Very convincing too -- if you stuck only with the numbers. The truth is, winners win with more than just talent. They expect to win and usually find a way to do so.

The Yankee/Red Sox rivalry is like the competition between a big brother and little brother. Even when the little brother becomes bigger and faster and stronger, usually the big brother keeps on beating him. Why? Because the little brother just can't think like a winner because he's been getting his ass whipped for so very long. I don't know, I just can't see Schilling that much of a difference in their thinking, but who knows? I've been wrong before on an occasion or two.

Does anyone find it funny that the only two one game playoffs (pre-wildcard) ever played were both lost by the Red Sox? But, then again, Red Sox fans have every reason to be pompous loud mouths, don't you think?
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Postby nsulham » Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:03 am

How about some love for the knowledgable, respectful Red Sox fans here eh?

Each team has it's own lot of loud-mouth, pompous, arrogant, fill-in-your-adjective-here fans but let's not stereotype or pigeonhole all fans of a certain team as bad apples.

I know of a few Yankee fans on here whom I respect and don't mind having a discussion with because they are knowledgable and respectful.

My point is it seems like the Sox fans here are taking a beating for just being Sox fans.

I'm sure none of you bashers would like to be lumped with the less-than-knowledgable fans of your team. If you see a single fan trumping how great the Sox are or are going to be or how they've ALREADY won the Series then fine, bash away. But I don't recall any fan here saying that they've won already or anything of that nature.

Let the players determine it on the field who should win and who should be forecasted to finish where.
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