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Postby JTWood » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:18 am

knapplc wrote:
JTWood wrote:
knapplc wrote:
JTWood wrote:Seriously, does anyone in this country like France? Does anyone here care that they don't like us? Why aren't we at war with them? It certainly would have been over long ago, and we'd have good, cheap wine to go with our really tall paper skewer to put on the desk.


Have you ever been to France? What are the French people like? Have you sat down and talked to any French people?

Why do you ask?

Why do you think I ask? You say you dislike the French. My question is - have you ever met any Frenchmen? What are you basing your dislike on?

I'm sorry I was joking. I broke rule number three.

Like I really think we should invade France for wine and the Eiffel Tower... :-b
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:21 am

How is their record poor? They won numerous wars under Francis I, Louis XIV, Napoleon. Louis XVI was good enough to send Admiral Degrasse to stave off the British fleet at Yorktown, allowing Washington to force Cornwallis to 'punt' and allowing the USA to be born. They did not do well in WWII, Indochina and Algeria but we didn't do so hot in Indochina ourselves. WW I was pretty much a draw but I would suggest visiting Verdun (which is in France...) to see the sort of fighting that went on there.

The terrain for MILES around Verdun looks like this:

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because of the tremendous volume of artillery fire that was poured into the area near the forts. I am not sure that 'stereotypically cowardly outlook' is an accurate term for the people who lived through this sort of thing, whatever Fox News likes to rant about. In 1940, I would have to suspect that many French would have said the very same thing about the US whose disengagement from the League of Nations can be seen as a major contributory cause of WWII in the first place.
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Postby JTWood » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:22 am

knapplc wrote:I'm just saying that you shouldn't throw all Frenchmen out with the bathwater because they have a weird form of government. Overall the French are great people.

Ha! That matches what I heard some guy say on the radio. Apparently, he was some sort of expert on the French, and he said something to this effect:

"I have many, many friends in France, and I have to say, as individuals, French people are wonderful. But something seems to happen to them when they get together in large groups..."

:-b
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Postby Madison » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:39 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
RugbyD wrote:they outlaw coverage by anyone not approved by the govt as a journalist.


And right now in the US a guy from San Francisco has been in jail since August because the government doesn't approve of him as a journalist. I'm as outraged over this as the next guy, but why be mad when it happens in France and not care if it happens here?


Tell me more. What exactly is he in jail for? Recording a violent act that was premeditated, or recording something as it happened without knowledge about it ahead of time? :-? Or broadcasting violent footage?

criminalizes the filming or broadcasting of acts of violence by people other than professional journalists.


Ok, I can see the "broadcasting" part, but not the "filming" part. Many crooks/criminals get caught due to a bystander happening to film the act. I mean if I hear fighting outside and I look out my window and see someone holding a gun (which I have done), grabbed my videocamera or my phone, and recorded that person shooting someone or attempting to shoot someone, that's now illegal (in France)? Even though that tape would send the shooter to death row?

Like I said, I understand the broadcasting part, as me broadcasting such an event isn't really in the best interest of society, but to get into trouble for recording it and aiding the police to put away a murderer with it, seems awfully silly to me. :-?
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Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:25 pm

Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
RugbyD wrote:they outlaw coverage by anyone not approved by the govt as a journalist.


And right now in the US a guy from San Francisco has been in jail since August because the government doesn't approve of him as a journalist. I'm as outraged over this as the next guy, but why be mad when it happens in France and not care if it happens here?


Tell me more. What exactly is he in jail for? Recording a violent act that was premeditated, or recording something as it happened without knowledge about it ahead of time? :-? Or broadcasting violent footage?


None of the above, actually. He was put in jail for not turning over video that he took of what was essentially a riot in which a police car was damaged. As I understand it, the government ruled that because he was an amateur videographer and the content was to go on a website he is not a journalist and is not protected by Shield Laws that apply to journalists. Whether he is right or wrong for not turning over his video isn't the issue as far as I'm concerned though. I'm worried about the government trying to define what constitutes a journalist and what qualifies as a legitimate news source. As a journalist and member of the news media I'm probably more interested in this story than most, but I think it's absolutely imparative for the media to be able to operate without the fear of being thrown in jail for doing their job.

There is a huge paradigm shift taking place right now in how we view--and what we consider to be--media. The "New Media" is gaining in popularity on traditional mediums by leaps and bounds every day. If we allow the government to say that fringe and independent media outlets--like blogs, podcasts, etc.--don't count, where do we draw the line? What about sources like Democracy Now, or WorldNet Daily? Anyway, I'm rambling now, but I find it absolutely ludicrous that this guy is still in jail more than six months later becuase the government has decided that he's not a journalist, this could potentially affect me directly, so it's something I've taken a special interest in.
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Postby Amazinz » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:31 pm

I don't have a lot of knowledge of about that case. Just read a few brief articles but I was under the impression that Federal Law does not have a shield law the way states do.
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Postby Madison » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:31 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
RugbyD wrote:they outlaw coverage by anyone not approved by the govt as a journalist.


And right now in the US a guy from San Francisco has been in jail since August because the government doesn't approve of him as a journalist. I'm as outraged over this as the next guy, but why be mad when it happens in France and not care if it happens here?


Tell me more. What exactly is he in jail for? Recording a violent act that was premeditated, or recording something as it happened without knowledge about it ahead of time? :-? Or broadcasting violent footage?


None of the above, actually. He was put in jail for not turning over video that he took of what was essentially a riot in which a police car was damaged. As I understand it, the government ruled that because he was an amateur videographer and the content was to go on a website he is not a journalist and is not protected by Shield Laws that apply to journalists. Whether he is right or wrong for not turning over his video isn't the issue as far as I'm concerned though. I'm worried about the government trying to define what constitutes a journalist and what qualifies as a legitimate news source. As a journalist and member of the news media I'm probably more interested in this story than most, but I think it's absolutely imparative for the media to be able to operate without the fear of being thrown in jail for doing their job.

There is a huge paradigm shift taking place right now in how we view--and what we consider to be--media. The "New Media" is gaining in popularity on traditional mediums by leaps and bounds every day. If we allow the government to say that fringe and independent media outlets--like blogs, podcasts, etc.--don't count, where do we draw the line? What about sources like Democracy Now, or WorldNet Daily? Anyway, I'm rambling now, but I find it absolutely ludicrous that this guy is still in jail more than six months later becuase the government has decided that he's not a journalist, this could potentially affect me directly, so it's something I've taken a special interest in.


So basically he's in jail because he wouldn't turn over the violent footage and planned on putting it up on his website?

You'll probably disagree with this, but I see two things. First, he should have been willing to cooperate and turn over the footage. Did it say if he was allowed to make a copy or provide a copy for the police, or did they want him to turn over all copies? If all they wanted was a copy or the original, and he'd been allowed to keep a copy or the original, then I definitely don't see why he didn't cooperate, so I'm guessing they wanted the original and all copies? Not sure I really agree with them demanding that. :-? Point number two falls into the broadcasting, which I mentioned in my earlier post. What good does it do to broadcast something like that? Did it say what his intent was as far as broadcasting it?

Hard for me to say much either way without the details, but it does sound like an interesting situation. :-?
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Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:17 pm

Amazinz wrote:I don't have a lot of knowledge of about that case. Just read a few brief articles but I was under the impression that Federal Law does not have a shield law the way states do.

You're correct, there is no federal Shield Law, though many people, myself included, think there should be. There is a California Shield Law, and there's some controversy over why he is being charged federally in the first place because the incident in question resulted in a damaged tail light on a San Francisco City Police vehicle, not a federal agency.
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Postby Amazinz » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:27 pm

I haven't formed an opinion one way or the other but the incident resulted in a police officer having his skull fractured. :-/

This is the article where I read that.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:28 pm

knapplc wrote:
JTWood wrote:Seriously, does anyone in this country like France? Does anyone here care that they don't like us? Why aren't we at war with them? It certainly would have been over long ago, and we'd have good, cheap wine to go with our really tall paper skewer to put on the desk.


Have you ever been to France? What are the French people like? Have you sat down and talked to any French people?


If you visited France you would hate the French. People that deal with tourists, especially in Paris, are rude, arrogant and pretty much fit the stereotype we have over here.

That being said France is a beautiful country with a lot of culture and one on one french people are as interesting as people from any other country. I know some very nice french people and they are great to drink with.
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