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A pet peeve about about Japanese players!!!

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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:44 pm

LCBOY wrote:Like I said, let the greedy bastard stay home then!

Seriously, though, if they want to play in the majors then they should have to earn the big salaries they want. Most experts place the quality of play in Japan roughly at the level of Triple-A. Nobody pays a rookie called up from Triple-A millions of dollars. They have to earn it. Of course one day MLB may swallow up the Japanese leagues. I can see a few major league teams in Japan say by 2020. Once a supersonic airliner is created it would make the trip much easier.


japanese players need nine years of service to qualify as a free agent (and if they get injured for a year, that year would not count towards free agency). so when a japanese player becomes a free agent and decides to fly however many thousand miles to work in the u.s. i think he has earned the right to sign a contract with whatever team he wants for whatever the market is willing to pay him.

and just because i am bored, they did have a super sonic airliner called the concorde but recently decomissioned it because it wasnt cost effective. ;-D
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Postby LCBOY » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:55 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:japanese players need nine years of service to qualify as a free agent (and if they get injured for a year, that year would not count towards free agency). so when a japanese player becomes a free agent and decides to fly however many thousand miles to work in the u.s. i think he has earned the right to sign a contract with whatever team he wants for whatever the market is willing to pay him.

and just because i am bored, they did have a super sonic airliner called the concorde but recently decomissioned it because it wasnt cost effective. ;-D


Why have the earned it? Just because they were born in Japan? It is not MLB's fault that Japan has such a strict free agency policy. Let them go through the draft and the team can pay them what they want. I have no problem with that. But the lesser teams should have the first chance to sign, not just the Yankees or the Dodgers...

Yes, I know the Concorde was supersonic. What I meant was a "real" supersonic airliner that was commerically viable and environmentally clean, something the Concorde was not. Boeing was working on the High Speed Civilian Transport (HSCT) in the mid-1990s but cancelled the program around 2000 because the plane would still not be economically viable. More advancements are needed in composite materials before the HSCT can come to life. Maybe it will happen in 10-15 years.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:34 pm

i guess i just dont really understand the reasons for japanese players going through the draft. because the brewers dont feel like spending money to keep their free agents they should have access to japanese free agents before anyone else? i think it would be different if they were say drafting young japanese players but if i were matsui or someone like that then i would feel pretty insulted being told what team i should play for. i think he has paid his dues and deserves to be a free agent.

by forcing kaz matsui through the draft lets say the for example the brewers draft him. lets just assume for the moment that he is worth 7 million a year. the brewers, and pretty much any other loser team, are going to offer him a small amount of money compared to what he is worth. matsui would then be forced to play for three years or so with a below market contract and then be 36 or something the first time he is eligible to sign a free agent contract. or he could not sign and enter the draft next year. i dont think that is a very fair solution to getting japanese talent to mlb, just my opinion. if you assume that the brewers decide to be smart and realize they cant afford him and everyother team that cant afford him passes until finally you get to someone that can afford him it is going to be the dodgers or yankees drafting him or whoever was in the running to get him in the first place.

i forgot about hsct. pretty cool concept with the monitors instead of windows.

anyway, i am outta here. happy turkey day to all.
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Postby DK » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:13 pm

I've thought about this whole Japanese people coming to the majors for a long time. And I have an idea.

Rather than have Major League Japanese players come over to the US, how about having World Divisions? Works like this: Have the six divisions we have now. Put them all in the NAL (North American League). Then create a WL (Worldwide League), and have players from Japan play for their respective country, same with Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic.

NAL-30 teams from US and Canada-contract four teams
WL-Central (America) Division, Asian Division, Japanese Division (I realize Japan is in Asia, but the amount of good players that play in Japan, it should have its own division.)

Interleague play would occur 15 times per team, and the teams that have to cross seas (ex. Milwaukee at San Pedro de Macoris or LA vs. Kinsestu) would have the next day off, to please the union.

Players could not go over to another League. The Cuban players represent their country, and their country only. Somebody from Venezuela or any country not involved can choose a place that they want to play, in the US, Japan, or wherever.

The NAL would have a Tournament playoff to choose the NAL representative to play against the WL in a seven-game series. Kaz Matsui, Hideo Nomo, Hideki Matsui, Chan Ho Park, Bruce Chen, *gulp* Jose Reyes, Sammy Sosa, and so on would have to go back to their respective countries. I think there would be a lot more juice to a World-NAL game if they did it olympic-style.

This is my idea, and I think there will HAVE to be a Division in Asia soon enough, even if they don't do a single thing I said. This is my idea. Of course, budget (one of the main arguments) could easily kill this idea or that nobody wants to own teams in these areas.
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Postby Jivedude » Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:26 pm

DK wrote:I've thought about this whole Japanese people coming to the majors for a long time. And I have an idea.

Rather than have Major League Japanese players come over to the US, how about having World Divisions? Works like this: Have the six divisions we have now. Put them all in the NAL (North American League). Then create a WL (Worldwide League), and have players from Japan play for their respective country, same with Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic.

NAL-30 teams from US and Canada-contract four teams
WL-Central (America) Division, Asian Division, Japanese Division (I realize Japan is in Asia, but the amount of good players that play in Japan, it should have its own division.)

Interleague play would occur 15 times per team, and the teams that have to cross seas (ex. Milwaukee at San Pedro de Macoris or LA vs. Kinsestu) would have the next day off, to please the union.

Players could not go over to another League. The Cuban players represent their country, and their country only. Somebody from Venezuela or any country not involved can choose a place that they want to play, in the US, Japan, or wherever.

The NAL would have a Tournament playoff to choose the NAL representative to play against the WL in a seven-game series. Kaz Matsui, Hideo Nomo, Hideki Matsui, Chan Ho Park, Bruce Chen, *gulp* Jose Reyes, Sammy Sosa, and so on would have to go back to their respective countries. I think there would be a lot more juice to a World-NAL game if they did it olympic-style.

This is my idea, and I think there will HAVE to be a Division in Asia soon enough, even if they don't do a single thing I said. This is my idea. Of course, budget (one of the main arguments) could easily kill this idea or that nobody wants to own teams in these areas.


Budget concerns would kill any hope of teams in Cuba, DR etc. Those people are too poor to be able to afford MLB tickets. an Asia vs North America series would be cool though
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Postby DK » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:33 pm

Jivedude wrote:Budget concerns would kill any hope of teams in Cuba, DR etc. Those people are too poor to be able to afford MLB tickets. an Asia vs North America series would be cool though


That's the sad part, mainly because the best players come from there. It's only a dream, after all.
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Postby Yikes » Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:33 am

[quote="j_d_mcnugent"]i guess i just dont really understand the reasons for japanese players going through the draft. i think it would be different if they were say drafting young japanese players but if i were matsui or someone like that then i would feel pretty insulted being told what team i should play for. i think he has paid his dues and deserves to be a free agent.

by forcing kaz matsui through the draft lets say the for example the brewers draft him. lets just assume for the moment that he is worth 7 million a year. the brewers, and pretty much any other loser team, are going to offer him a small amount of money compared to what he is worth. matsui would then be forced to play for three years or so with a below market contract and then be 36 or something the first time he is eligible to sign a free agent contract. or he could not sign and enter the draft next year. i dont think that is a very fair solution to getting japanese talent to mlb, just my opinion. [/quote]

There has been some recent grumbling on the high salaries that Japanese players are receiving and suggestions that they should enter the draft.

I feel that the salaries they are getting are justified and that the draft is an artificial way to give teams with lower budget a chance to win.

I believe in the end it’s all based on market economy theory. Bear with me on this one. :-o For example, some say Alex Rodriguez is not worth that monstrous contract he is currently riding, but he justified that he is worth that much because apparently that’s how much the Rangers offered him. Simple market economy – the buyers justify the price for the goods simply because that’s how much he just paid for it.

Just like that $5 apple you see selling at the airport and you think that’s highway robbery. Well, that apple is priced at $5 because that’s how much some people are willing to pay for it despite your personal disgust at the high price.

The free agent system is the best structure for players where their true values are realized by their highest bidders in a market economy atmosphere. ;-D

All MLB teams have limited resources (i.e. team budget, roster space) and there are limited talent pools from Japan. And to force the best Japanese players enter a draft give players set salaries (e.g. 1st rounders get $x, 2nd rounders get $y per year) does put teams on a more even playing field. This can be put in place by league policy but a policy like that sounds like communism where laws artificially put all teams on an even playing field. :-D

Yes I’m sure it disgusts small market teams that big budget teams can buy the best players just like it disgust me that some people are willing to pay for that $5 airport at the airport. However, that’s market economy at work. :-/

Japanese players are partially driven for money to play in the US and ARE paid fairly by the MLB teams according to market demand for them in the US market. This is simple market economy at work. That’s why the best Japanese players go to the teams that are willing and able to afford them - this applies to Kaz Matsui as well.

For an absolute true market economy at work that helps all rookie players (e.g. from high school, college, etc.) realize their full market values, there shouldn’t even be a draft. :-°
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Postby LCBOY » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:53 pm

Yikes wrote:
j_d_mcnugent wrote:i guess i just dont really understand the reasons for japanese players going through the draft. i think it would be different if they were say drafting young japanese players but if i were matsui or someone like that then i would feel pretty insulted being told what team i should play for. i think he has paid his dues and deserves to be a free agent.


The thing is the Japanese players HAVE NOT payed their dues. Paying your dues is playing the the major leagues. The Japanese leagues are in essence a minor league, roughly equivalent to Triple-A. Triples-A can't just just sign with whoever they want right.

Also, though baseball is a business, it is unlike most "normal" businesses. In an normal business environment, say shoemakers, there are competing companies. They are always trying to outsell each other and having a competitor go out of business is a postive for the other owners. This is not the case in baseball. The financial health of every team is linked to the others. Teams are selling major league baseball no tYankee baseball or Giants' baseball. If you doubt this just have the Yankees play 162 intra-squad games and see how many people show up. Thus, by having the lesser teams first access to the best Japanese talent will help all the teams.
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Postby Yikes » Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:29 am

[quote="LCBOY"]
The thing is the Japanese players HAVE NOT payed their dues. Paying your dues is playing the the major leagues. The Japanese leagues are in essence a minor league, roughly equivalent to Triple-A. Triples-A can't just just sign with whoever they want right.
[/quote]

Since when has a “triple-A” player came to the major leagues in their “rookie” year to win the AL MVP a la Ichiro? Since when has a “triple-A” player had to win 7 batting titles in the “minor” leagues before coming to the major leagues? ;-7

[quote="LCBOY"]
Also, though baseball is a business, it is unlike most "normal" businesses. In an normal business environment, say shoemakers, there are competing companies. They are always trying to outsell each other and having a competitor go out of business is a postive for the other owners. This is not the case in baseball. The financial health of every team is linked to the others. Teams are selling major league baseball no tYankee baseball or Giants' baseball. If you doubt this just have the Yankees play 162 intra-squad games and see how many people show up. Thus, by having the lesser teams first access to the best Japanese talent will help all the teams.
[/quote]

You’re now changing the subject from what I was talking about: market economy and being fair or unfair to Japanese baseball veterans. You are now talking about balancing team powers and nurturing a overall competitive environment in baseball.

I don’t believe it is in the Yankees' or the BoSox' or any teams’ business plan to ensure the continued success of baseball as an overall sport in the US. Each individual team’s primary concern is their personal survival and prosperity. Just the fact that each team is doing their best for their own individual prosperity is ensuring there is continued competition and exciting baseball in the US. How this relates to 162 intra-squad games eludes me. :-?

It leaves the fact to be true that all teams will do their best to harness the best talent available utilizing the resources that each team has. Of course the best teams will snag the best players and more likely than not produce better results. And this is market economy theory at work. ;-D

To have league policy dictate the small-market teams the right to draft overseas players that come from professional leagues is again, communism. :-o

American high-school players are drafted initially by teams and "nurtured" by MLB farm systems. To compare Japanese professional players and have them go through the same process as American high-schoolers is ludicrious. :-°
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Postby timkell » Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:40 am

It leaves the fact to be true that all teams will do their best to harness the best talent available utilizing the resources that each team has. Of course the best teams will snag the best players and more likely than not produce better results. And this is market economy theory at work.


Someone tell this to the Brewers.
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