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Postby PlayingWithFire » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm

Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Really, if the guy would have just showed some maturity and, when told of the pregnancy, said that it couldn't be his, this wouldn't have been an ordeal at all. But he chose to play this silly game, one which it seems that he got some sort of perverse pleasure out of, to try to teach her some kind of lesson.

I completely agree. Mad seems to think otherwise, as does ACS.


She played the game first, so why is he wrong for blowing her game into to pieces in front of her face?

Had she not played a game to begin with, this wouldn't have happened either.


I don't think that she "played the game first." He says he knew from the beginning that she wanted kids, yet he didn't bother telling her that he couldn't have kids because he wanted to keep having sex with her. It seems like "the game" started when he decided to come up with some grandiose plan for revenge rather than telling her he had a vasectomy.


Did she ask him to have kids with her? Did she ask him if he was interested in marrying her and starting a family?

Not according to the story. It's only what he "thought" she wanted.

So she gets knocked up by someone else, then tries to ruin his life forever by saying it's his, while full well knowing it could be someone else's.

That's not playing the game first? 8-o


Can't she be subtle about it?

I never made any move towards commitment but she brought it up ocassionally.


That's pretty much all that's needed to show that the woman had showed interest in having a family with him.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:31 pm

Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Really, if the guy would have just showed some maturity and, when told of the pregnancy, said that it couldn't be his, this wouldn't have been an ordeal at all. But he chose to play this silly game, one which it seems that he got some sort of perverse pleasure out of, to try to teach her some kind of lesson.

I completely agree. Mad seems to think otherwise, as does ACS.


She played the game first, so why is he wrong for blowing her game into to pieces in front of her face?

Had she not played a game to begin with, this wouldn't have happened either.


I don't think that she "played the game first." He says he knew from the beginning that she wanted kids, yet he didn't bother telling her that he couldn't have kids because he wanted to keep having sex with her. It seems like "the game" started when he decided to come up with some grandiose plan for revenge rather than telling her he had a vasectomy.


Did she ask him to have kids with her? Did she ask him if he was interested in marrying her and starting a family?

Not according to the story. It's only what he "thought" she wanted.

So she gets knocked up by someone else, then tries to ruin his life forever by saying it's his, while full well knowing it could be someone else's.

That's not playing the game first? 8-o


For all we know she may have genuinely thought it was his. But instead of telling her it couldn't be his, he shows up at her house with flowers and jewelry pretending to want to have a relationship with her.


Even if she *hoped* it was his, that's as close as she could have gotten. She was not upfront that it *might* not be his, so she played the game first and he blew it up in her face. Fair enough to me.



I think most people in her situation would probably do the same. It's not morally upstanding but it's what's best for her.

Also, the same argument can be made to bring down the dude.

Even though he *knows* he couldn't have kids. He was not upfront with it, and he played the game in hope that he'd get laid while basically wasting this woman's life for whatever amount of time they spend together when she could have found somebody else that *might* actually be interested in starting a family or at least a serious relationship with her.(and no, the band member was probably a 1 time thing. And from what I know from the story, she spend most of her time with the dude in the story)
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Postby Madison » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:56 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Really, if the guy would have just showed some maturity and, when told of the pregnancy, said that it couldn't be his, this wouldn't have been an ordeal at all. But he chose to play this silly game, one which it seems that he got some sort of perverse pleasure out of, to try to teach her some kind of lesson.

I completely agree. Mad seems to think otherwise, as does ACS.


She played the game first, so why is he wrong for blowing her game into to pieces in front of her face?

Had she not played a game to begin with, this wouldn't have happened either.


I don't think that she "played the game first." He says he knew from the beginning that she wanted kids, yet he didn't bother telling her that he couldn't have kids because he wanted to keep having sex with her. It seems like "the game" started when he decided to come up with some grandiose plan for revenge rather than telling her he had a vasectomy.


Did she ask him to have kids with her? Did she ask him if he was interested in marrying her and starting a family?

Not according to the story. It's only what he "thought" she wanted.

So she gets knocked up by someone else, then tries to ruin his life forever by saying it's his, while full well knowing it could be someone else's.

That's not playing the game first? 8-o


Can't she be subtle about it?

I never made any move towards commitment but she brought it up ocassionally.


That's pretty much all that's needed to show that the woman had showed interest in having a family with him.


Sure, being subtle is one thing, but at some point it has to be made clear what she wants. I'd like to know what he said in those situations where something was said about it, or if a response was even warranted. Could have just been offhand comments that were not a big deal. Hard to say.

PlayingWithFire wrote:I think most people in her situation would probably do the same. It's not morally upstanding but it's what's best for her.


Robbing a bank would be best for me. Does that mean it's ok if I do it?

PlayingWithFire wrote:Also, the same argument can be made to bring down the dude.

Even though he *knows* he couldn't have kids. He was not upfront with it, and he played the game in hope that he'd get laid while basically wasting this woman's life for whatever amount of time they spend together when she could have found somebody else that *might* actually be interested in starting a family or at least a serious relationship with her.(and no, the band member was probably a 1 time thing. And from what I know from the story, she spend most of her time with the dude in the story)


True. He played a game as well, but he wasn't trying to destroy her life in the process.

"Probably" a one time thing, but in reality you have no clue. Neither do I. You could be right, but I'd believe it was more than one guy and/or more than just one dumb night.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:25 pm

Madison wrote:
PlayingWithFire wrote:
Madison wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Madison wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Really, if the guy would have just showed some maturity and, when told of the pregnancy, said that it couldn't be his, this wouldn't have been an ordeal at all. But he chose to play this silly game, one which it seems that he got some sort of perverse pleasure out of, to try to teach her some kind of lesson.

I completely agree. Mad seems to think otherwise, as does ACS.


She played the game first, so why is he wrong for blowing her game into to pieces in front of her face?

Had she not played a game to begin with, this wouldn't have happened either.


I don't think that she "played the game first." He says he knew from the beginning that she wanted kids, yet he didn't bother telling her that he couldn't have kids because he wanted to keep having sex with her. It seems like "the game" started when he decided to come up with some grandiose plan for revenge rather than telling her he had a vasectomy.


Did she ask him to have kids with her? Did she ask him if he was interested in marrying her and starting a family?

Not according to the story. It's only what he "thought" she wanted.

So she gets knocked up by someone else, then tries to ruin his life forever by saying it's his, while full well knowing it could be someone else's.

That's not playing the game first? 8-o


Can't she be subtle about it?

I never made any move towards commitment but she brought it up ocassionally.


That's pretty much all that's needed to show that the woman had showed interest in having a family with him.


Sure, being subtle is one thing, but at some point it has to be made clear what she wants. I'd like to know what he said in those situations where something was said about it, or if a response was even warranted. Could have just been offhand comments that were not a big deal. Hard to say.

PlayingWithFire wrote:I think most people in her situation would probably do the same. It's not morally upstanding but it's what's best for her.


Robbing a bank would be best for me. Does that mean it's ok if I do it?

PlayingWithFire wrote:Also, the same argument can be made to bring down the dude.

Even though he *knows* he couldn't have kids. He was not upfront with it, and he played the game in hope that he'd get laid while basically wasting this woman's life for whatever amount of time they spend together when she could have found somebody else that *might* actually be interested in starting a family or at least a serious relationship with her.(and no, the band member was probably a 1 time thing. And from what I know from the story, she spend most of her time with the dude in the story)


True. He played a game as well, but he wasn't trying to destroy her life in the process.

"Probably" a one time thing, but in reality you have no clue. Neither do I. You could be right, but I'd believe it was more than one guy and/or more than just one dumb night.


I'll agree that the story is in no way complete for a accurate judgment. I just think since the story(assume it's true, though I have my doubt) is told from the male's perspective that he must be doing his best to make him look better. Thus, those 1 sentenced hints might be big factors in their relationship.

Again. Neither person are perfect. But what the male has done here is way over the top for me.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:23 pm

What I love about this thread is that we are all arguing over grades of culpability and despicableness between two people who we all pretty much agree are guilty of being asshats to some extent, in a story that most of us think is fake. Good times!
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Postby JTWood » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:54 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:What I love about this thread is that we are all arguing over grades of culpability and despicableness between two people who we all pretty much agree are guilty of being asshats to some extent, in a story that most of us think is fake. Good times!

Welcome to Al Gore's Internet.

;-D
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:23 am

JTWood wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:What I love about this thread is that we are all arguing over grades of culpability and despicableness between two people who we all pretty much agree are guilty of being asshats to some extent, in a story that most of us think is fake. Good times!

Welcome to Al Gore's Internet.

;-D


I just hope we don't block Ted Steven's internet's tubes up with this sort of wasteful bickering.
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Postby PlayingWithFire » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:25 am

Absolutely Adequate wrote:
JTWood wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:What I love about this thread is that we are all arguing over grades of culpability and despicableness between two people who we all pretty much agree are guilty of being asshats to some extent, in a story that most of us think is fake. Good times!

Welcome to Al Gore's Internet.

;-D


I just hope we don't block Ted Steven's internet's tubes up with this sort of wasteful bickering.


nah, shouldn't be a problem. A giant lotto ball would just come rolling and clean it all up
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