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TRADING: a necessity? an option? or something to avoid?

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Postby wrveres » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:40 am

HOOTIE wrote:I believe 3 things are needed.

Draft, easist way to acquire who you want.
Waivers, nice freebies to be had.
Trades, to acquire a player you want, where you have no other alternative.
Yes, you can win with no trades. But i believe thats as rare, as a bad draft winning. Trades are probably my biggest asset.


agreed, while the draft is important, these mummies that sit around and watch there "Average Team", or what do they call it, "Well Balanced" .... I eat there lunch, right along with this "Chips A' Hoy" I just shoved into my mouth. Finishiing in the money is nice and all, but I am here to win.

If I can make up three points in saves with two months to go, damn right I am trading for a closer. If I am wiping the floor with speed, damn right I'll shop Pierre. I play to win. Period. ...

and I win, period.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:42 am

Great topic Stevelabny.

I would consider in order of importance, #1 draft, #2 FA pickups, #3 trades.

In support of your overall argument I have seen more leagues won bye good drafts and FA pickups then I have seen leagues won bye an owner comeing out ahead on trades.

I'm in a league that has a 3 year limit on keepers, you get to keep them 3 full years so if you trade for them midseason that year doesnt count. Naturaly this neccessitates tradeing, particularly now as we are going into our 4th year of the league. There are still a couple of owners that play the trade angle with the just look for a sucker angle, but they for the most part have been weeded out and we still have 7 of the original 12 owners. Owners that trade fair usually help their teams in the long run and the guys that keep looking for a sucker usually end up becomeing the sucker. In one instance a few years ago a guy had some offer out for a stud offering his 2nd rate players, he never pulled that lame offer down, the stud got hurt for the year and the owner that got the low ball offer accepted, LOL. I would have objected but that owner had alienated the entire league for so long it drew no objections and the commissioner had to push it through.

Back on to the subject of the merrit of trades, I think it is much more important in roto than it is in H-H. H-H points are points and no one is ever going to give up lopsided points to fill a need. Roto however if you have run away with steals, you very well might give up a stud basestealer for a 2nd tier power hitter and a throw in at another need. In that difference I'm pointing out say the 2nd place person gave up steals, he gave up more draft table value, but still helped his team. H-H you need your points every week so your not going to sacrifice that much. Trades are harder to come bye and less important in H-H.
"Son we would like to keep you around here but were trying to win a pennant this year."
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Postby wrveres » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:59 am

Let me add to this....

My Uncle, lets call him "Uncle Rob". I play roto ball with Rob, Have for a couple of years. Rob is the definition of a sports nerd. when we were young, Rob had a collection of the little plastic baseball helmets. Every morning Rob would line them up according to their current standings, LOL. He knows his baseball, he even has a minor league roto team, two I think. He has one of those 800 services, the one where you call and get his picks for 20.00, but thats football.
anyways he knows his sport. very well.

Come draft time, he always, and I mean always, walks away with a "Well Balanced Team". But then sits, and sits maybe makes a few FA pickups, but is always "looking" for the "Baseball averages" to work out.

The last four years he has finished in the money too ... 3rd..
as a matter of fact we had a throne made up for him, called it the "throne of third"..

you want my opinion,, F**K third, I came to win. To hell with ... "at least I am in the money"

I have taken the liberty to attach my last post to Rob after his was upset with his "average team .... again" .... I thought it was kinda funny.
Come On Big Money .....No Wammies wrote:Oh My God ..Talk about your sore loser ... Guess that rules out Christmas in Reno. Wow, and my ski's were almost done too, it only cost me $109.99 ...I don't remember being late last year, or this year. I paid my League Fees on or before the date set aside by the Commish. Right Commish? Dan?Plus I said there was no "Talk" as in "communication" thats why it gets boring. These personal attacks are the most "Communication" I've seen all season. You never get it right.

And Lastly, am I to understand that someone "never" payed their "league fees"? I can't figure out why you aren't upset about that Rob. Hell it cost you your rightful "Throne of 3rd"!! Instead, the person in whom you must share your "3rd" place money never even paid there league fees that were due "3" months ago. Funny too, is that they battled you for "3rd", for at least the last "3rd" of the season. Ooops sorry, I stand corrected. I think they paid a "3rd" of their league fees. Didn't we have a date set on that Dan? I think it was the "3rd" week in June. Why don't you go and "Personal Attack" them potty mouth. They got your "3rd" place money and stole your "Throne of 3rd". I won fair and square, no where near "3rd."(smilz)and I did it .... playing nicely
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Postby stevelabny » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:15 am

Which brings up another point, although I always attempt to win, I am content with a 2nd or 3rd place finish because we are playing for real money. I suppose I would be more prone to make dumb risky trades if there was no money involved. (I sense another thread, but its too late to do it now)

This year, finishing 3rd behind the two rookies, I was 1 point out of first with one week left then had a BRUTAL final pitching week.
Last year, finishing 2nd, I made a tremedous comeback to tie the first place team with 10 days left, but fell short.
Three years ago, I won.
Four years ago, I also finished 2nd in a close fight.
Five years ago, I finished 4th, because I got way too cocky at the draft table and walked away with the one and only baseball team I wasn't happy with on draft night.
Six years ago, I finished third... cant see I really remember the circumstances. Although I think this was the year I experimented with carrying an EMPTY SPOT rather than replace an injured catcher with a scrub.
Seven years ago, in my first season, I was KILLED by injuries. I say this because the league rules at the time, were soooo stupid that I actually couldnt replace my injured players. We immediately switched to the "standard" rules the next year.

I might actually be missing a year or two somehow. It sure seems Ive been playing since before 97. not sure.

My point is simply that I NEVER play for 2nd or 3rd. I attempt to win. Even in my ridiculous basketball comeback, I always knew if i caught the right breaks I could WIN and not just climb into the money. I always try to win. I'm just not bitterly angry in 2nd or 3rd as I would be if I actually had to PAY my entry fee :-P
"Baseball is like church. Many attend. Few understand." -- Leo Durocher
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Postby Erboes » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:27 am

Wrveres is exactly right -- the timid get run over like a deer in headlights in every league I've been in. The key is though, you got to be sharp. There are those who make trades and get taken to the clearners every time, but if you know what you are doing you'll win 8 out of every ten trades, and in my league there are 6 who are very sharp,and 6 who aren't. The sharpies suck the dim bulbs dry with the trades, making the race for the title impossible to win unless you stick your straw in too and suck like hell. And if decide not to suck you end up middle of the pack. That's just the law of the jungle that I am used to.
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Postby Walden warriors » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:43 am

In my league last year, trade quantity and finish were correlated at -.07, that is, not at all.
Does your league need a quality, outside review of your league rulebook? Does your league not have a written rulebook? Contact me! I can help.
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Postby Shitney™ » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:41 pm

i agree with whoever said they don't like to be risky with trades..

i make only 1-2 trades a yearin my keeper, and they've all been minor

gave Sheets for Piazza last july

i didn't need sheets with all my stellar pitching, i liked the idea of keeping piazza for next year, the guy i traded to needed any pitching he could find to stay in the playoff race...

gave foppert for Klesko last july

this was before fopp's injury and i needed klesko because Dunn was not doing it at 1st..klesjo got hurt, but fopps out longer

gave oswalt and lieber for floyd, gagne, m.williams, furcal in 2002 season before the trade deadline

none of them were keepers for me, not even oswalt.., i was in 1st wanted to stay there.. he was in 2nd to last.. really wanted to keep oswalt
ended up winning easily, got furcal, gagne, and floyd all back in the draft

gave rocker and radke for giles, grace in '01
i needed the OF and a backup 1st radke and rock were expendable..

maybe it's just our league, but we make trades between weak and strong teams to look toward the playoffs and keepers for next season..

i don't think any of these trades really put me any higher in the standings.. but they did filled holes for following seasons
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