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Halladay wins Cy Young

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Postby pkarr5000 » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:23 pm

i didnt want halladay to win after getting so much run support the first half but he worked his butt off second half and shut out some talented clubs. way to go roy. ill give you a chance to try out for my team next year, but im not making any promises. ;-)
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Postby Madison » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:38 pm

DK wrote:
Madison wrote:
eftda wrote:Madison --> You think Loriza wont be the same in 04?


I think my opinion on Loaiza's performance next year is well known. :-D


Wait...

Let me guess...

20 Wins, a 2.00 ERA, and 300 K's? :-)


and what's with this guy? :-°


1 win against the Brewers, 10 losses, era over 5, and out for the year with injury.

:-° <-------relieved smiley :-)

In all honesty, I'm still saying that Loaiza will have around 12 wins, and an era over 4. The era over 4 is a no brainer.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:34 am

From ESPN Page 2 Daily Quicke 11/11/03
Wonder if any "revisionist" AL Cy Young voters will apply a one-sided standard of some minimum number of wins or innings that must be reached.

That will let voters conveniently discount that Pedro was the best AL pitcher this season -- as opposed to Toronto's Roy Halladay, who had the most wins and innings. (Hold on, let's qualify that IP: Halladay threw 79 more innings than Pedro -- but gave up 59 more runs! That's a 6.72 ERA for those "extra innings.")


This is the kind of media logic that bothers me. You can't just subtract innings and runs allowed come up with a magical ERA for just the extra innings pitched.

OBP
1-3 innings Halladay .298 Pedro .248
4-6 innings Halladay .245 Pedro .270
7-9 innings Halladay .283 Pedro .342
Total Halladay .275 Pedro .271

And the real kicker Halladay 9 CG Pedro 3 CG

I'm willing to bet that if Pedro pitched those extra 79 innings he would have gave up more than 59 runs.

We all know best is subjective but can a pitcher really be the best if he only gives you 6 or 7 innings.

End rant :-°
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:56 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:From ESPN Page 2 Daily Quicke 11/11/03
Wonder if any "revisionist" AL Cy Young voters will apply a one-sided standard of some minimum number of wins or innings that must be reached.

That will let voters conveniently discount that Pedro was the best AL pitcher this season -- as opposed to Toronto's Roy Halladay, who had the most wins and innings. (Hold on, let's qualify that IP: Halladay threw 79 more innings than Pedro -- but gave up 59 more runs! That's a 6.72 ERA for those "extra innings.")


This is the kind of media logic that bothers me. You can't just subtract innings and runs allowed come up with a magical ERA for just the extra innings pitched.

OBP
1-3 innings Halladay .298 Pedro .248
4-6 innings Halladay .245 Pedro .270
7-9 innings Halladay .283 Pedro .342
Total Halladay .275 Pedro .271

And the real kicker Halladay 9 CG Pedro 3 CG

I'm willing to bet that if Pedro pitched those extra 79 innings he would have gave up more than 59 runs.

We all know best is subjective but can a pitcher really be the best if he only gives you 6 or 7 innings.

End rant :-°


I agree that Pedro was the best pitcher in the AL this year, but there was no way he could win it without the wins totals. I think giving a Cy Young to a guy who had no wins in April, when people on this board were talking about dropping him--and I know one did, by the Expos fan but I can't remember his name--and those weren't wins blown. He pitched horrible in April, great in September...

I guess despite this reservation about Halladay, he was most deserving, aside from Pedro. :)
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 am

Granted Halladay wasn't good in April but he wasn't as bad as every thinks either. 5 starts 0-1 4.91 ERA.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:13 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:Granted Halladay wasn't good in April but he wasn't as bad as every thinks either. 5 starts 0-1 4.91 ERA.


No, he wasn't horrid, that's for sure. But a 4.91 ERA? Ouch.

For comparison, Pedro also had a bad April--a 3.51. Other than that, his worst month ERA was 2.9--in August. In September he went 4-0, with a .82 ERA. .82!!!!
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:15 am

I still think the number of games and innings pitched more than makes up for it. But it is all a matter of opinion.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:16 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:I still think the number of games and innings pitched more than makes up for it. But it is all a matter of opinion.


I'm just glad you didn't say "wins." I'll agree to disagree. ;-D :-°
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:25 am

Transmogrifier wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I still think the number of games and innings pitched more than makes up for it. But it is all a matter of opinion.


I'm just glad you didn't say "wins." I'll agree to disagree. ;-D :-°


Wins is a very team dependant stat. Much like RBI. It doesn't necessarily reflect individual performance. I'm pretty sure we aren't going to convince each other. It is just a matter of quality vs. quanity. Pedro is the better pitcher innings 1-6. It just how you weight innings pitched. It is interesting that Pedro was a very distant 3rd and no one gave him a 1st place vote. Even then he only had 3 for second. But the writers have show year in and year out what a group of egomanic idiots they are.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:38 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:But the writers have show year in and year out what a group of egomanic idiots they are.


Agreed. Such as two writers not even listing Pedro in the top ten for MVP in 99. He should have won it.
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